Converting First Edition Monsters

[freyar]

Note this line: "The bone tyrant master can subjugate undead within range of its minions by means of its telepathic link to the minion." So the master doesn't have to move around, and, in fact, the minion can just telepathically say, "Hey, Master! Subjugate this vampire over here, please!" I just think it feels a bit cleaner this way.

But I don't want this to drag on too much longer...

 

[Cleon]

Note this line: "The bone tyrant master can subjugate undead within range of its minions by means of its telepathic link to the minion." So the master doesn't have to move around, and, in fact, the minion can just telepathically say, "Hey, Master! Subjugate this vampire over here, please!" I just think it feels a bit cleaner this way.

But I don't want this to drag on too much longer...

I still don't like the wording, mainly because it implies that the Master is the one making the rebuke undead action, not the minion. I don't mind making it clear that the Minion's Subjugation ability is derived from the Master.

Hmm... how about this:

Subjugate Undead (Su): A bone tyrant minion can rebuke, command, dispel or bolster undead as if it were a 5th [?] level evil cleric.

A minion that is bonded to a bone tyrant master uses its master's Charisma bonus and effective cleric level when making Subjugate Undead checks instead of its own, and the Hit Dice limit of undead it can Subjugate is taken from a pool shared by the master and all its minions. See the bone tyrant master for full details. The master can block any of its minions from using Subjugate Undead as a free action, or restore it as another free action.

 

[freyar]

That's fine, though the implication that the Master is the one making the rebuke action is exactly what I was going for. However, I'll go along with your last revision there.

 

[Cleon]

That's fine, though the implication that the Master is the one making the rebuke action is exactly what I was going for. However, I'll go along with your last revision there.

Fine by me.

Updating Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Ready to marshall some undead? My preferred version was this:

Marshal Undead (Su) [Subjugation]: Once a day, a bone tyrant master can call undead to gather towards it. This is resolved like a use of the tyrant's Subjugate Undead ability (see below) that can affect any undead within 20 miles of the master except for other bone tyrants. Marshal Undead does not require line of effect or line of sight. Affected undead start walking towards the bone tyrant master, taking the most direct route available. A marshaled undead will try to move around or break through obstacles, and will attack creatures to threaten or obstruct them. If the Subjugate Undead check had a "rebuke" result, the undead will walk towards the master for 1 hour and then revert to its normal behavior; undead Subjugated by a "command" result will keep walking until they are destroyed or a bone tyrant instructs them to stop. A cleric may channeling channeling positive energy or negative energy to dispel a Marshal Undead effect. This follows the "Dispelling Turning" rules for an evil cleric except there are no alignment restrictions.​

...come to think of it, I'd also add

A bone tyrant master can marshal up to X Hit Dice of undead at any one time. These undead count towards its Subjugate Undead Hit Dice limits. A bone tyrant (master or minion) can determine the location of its marshaled undead (as per the locate creature) spell) as an at-will ability.​

 

[Cleon]

Ready to marshall some undead? My preferred version was this:

Suits me. Come to think of it, I'm not sure we need the "A bone tyrant master can marshal up to X Hit Dice of undead at any one time" bit - the HD marshalled per attempt will be limited by the Rebuke Undead check, and it'd be simpler if the HD limit of marshalled undead just used the bone tyrant's Subjugate Undead HD limit.

I'd also clarify the "a bone tyrant instructs them to stop" bit and break the text up into several paragraphs for clarity.

Putting it together...

Marshal Undead (Su): Once a day, a bone tyrant master can call undead to gather towards it. This is resolved like a use of the tyrant's Subjugate Undead ability (see below). Marshal Undead can affect any undead within 20 miles of the master, except for other bone tyrants, and does not require line of effect or line of sight. The marshaled undead count towards the Hit Dice limit of the bone tyrant's Subjugate Undead ability.

Affected undead start walking towards the bone tyrant master, taking the most direct route available. A marshaled undead will try to move around or break through obstacles, and will attack creatures that threaten or obstruct them. If the Subjugate Undead check had a "rebuke" result, the undead will walk towards the master for 1 hour and then revert to normal behavior; undead marshaled by a "command" result will keep walking until they are destroyed or the bone tyrant master instructs them to stop (either in person or via a bone tyrant minion).

A cleric can attempt to dispel a Marshal Undead effect by channeling positive energy or negative energy. This follows the "Dispelling Turning" rules for an evil cleric except there are no alignment restrictions.

That OK for you?

 

[freyar]

I think that will work, sure.

What's next for these?

 

[Cleon]

I think that will work, sure.

Updating Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

What's next for these?

Well if you want to continue the special abilities, the "Bone Tyrant Bond" is the main one left.

That reminds me, we'd better make them immune to turning, since there's no mention of "Bloody Bones turn as X" in the original monster.

Hold on, I've just noticed it's explicitly stated in module C5: "the minions must be attacked to remove them as they are unaffected by turning attempts." Might as well add that to the Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Is that the telepathic connection between the Master and Minions? We could base it on formians and their queen, I guess. Maybe like a toned down hive mind.

 

[Cleon]

Is that the telepathic connection between the Master and Minions? We could base it on formians and their queen, I guess. Maybe like a toned down hive mind.

Well, the Master-Minion connection has two mechanical aspects:

a) Each minion lost reduces the master's HD and undead-influencing abilities.
b) The master's "telepathic link with its minions allows the master to send a minion where it is needed".

The original source doesn't specify how the telepathic link works, what information it can transfer, or whether it's one-way or two-way.

I'm thinking we should just make the latter a (Su) ability that functions like the telepathic bond spell.

The "level-linked" connection is going to be a bit trickier.