Converting First Edition Monsters

[freyar]

Yeah, let's just max out the two Knowledges, Spot, Listen, and Intimidate. That gives a line of

Intimidate +19, Knowledge (religion) +15, Knowledge (the planes) +15, Listen +17, Spot +17, Survival +5 (on other planes) .

Look ok?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, let's just max out the two Knowledges, Spot, Listen, and Intimidate. That gives a line of

Intimidate +19, Knowledge (religion) +15, Knowledge (the planes) +15, Listen +17, Spot +17, Survival +5 (on other planes) .

Look ok?

Fine by me. Except the Survival is +3 (+5 on other planes).

Updating the Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

So what do you fancy for feats? It gets four of them.

Hmm, its Subjugate Undead ability means it can qualify for Divine Might if it picks Power Attack.

Combat Reflexes ought to be a good match to its high Dex and 10 ft. reach.

That leaves one. Maybe something from the Power Attack tree like Cleave or Improved Sunder or a general defense boosted like Lightning Reflexes?

 

[freyar]

Let's go for Imp Sunder as the last feat.

To fill in a few more question marks:
LA: -
Treasure: None

Hmm, I was thinking about the org and then noticed something. Don't we need to specify somewhere how many minions a master "starts with"?

 

[Cleon]

Let's go for Imp Sunder as the last feat.

Works for me!

To fill in a few more question marks:
LA: -
Treasure: None

Updating the Bone Tyrant Working Draft.

Hmm, I was thinking about the org and then noticed something. Don't we need to specify somewhere how many minions a master "starts with"?

In the original source, a master always appears with six minions when summoned. No more no less.

I'd be OK allowing for more powerful masters to have more minions, or more powerful ones.

 

[freyar]

I'm happy to keep them with 6 minions to start but allowing the minions to advance along with the master (time for an underbar, methinks). But we should either mention that number 6 in the background or the Minion Dependence SQ or both.

 

[Cleon]

I'm happy to keep them with 6 minions to start but allowing the minions to advance along with the master (time for an underbar, methinks). But we should either mention that number 6 in the background or the Minion Dependence SQ or both.

Having their Advancement tied together would seem to make the most sense.

Maybe have the Minions gain a HD for every 2 or 3 HD the master gains?

So do you prefer a fixed number of minions or have the number increase as the Master gets tougher?

I guess we'd better decide on the Master's normal Hit Dice advancement at the same time, as the three issues are so closely tied together.

 

[freyar]

A related question is if we're putting them into the same CC entry or two linked ones. I guess with linking, it doesn't make too much of a difference.

From looking at the original monster, it seems we should note that the Minions get banished back to the 9 Hells if the Master is destroyed. Seems like that would fit in Minion Bond. Or did we decide to drop that?

The original monster Masters always seemed to have 6 minions, so I guess we should stick to that. But maybe the Minions should gain 1 HD per every 3 or 4 HD the Master gains in advancment. I don't think I'd necessarily have the Masters change size, but HD advancement up to maybe 22 HD would work.

 

[Cleon]

A related question is if we're putting them into the same CC entry or two linked ones. I guess with linking, it doesn't make too much of a difference.

I was assuming we'd make it two CC entries.

If we used one entry called a "Bone Tyrant, Master" and included the Minions as a subentry it'd hide the latter's stats more than they need to be. Hmm, and it'd raise the question as to whether the single entry should just be called a "Bone Tyrant".

From looking at the original monster, it seems we should note that the Minions get banished back to the 9 Hells if the Master is destroyed. Seems like that would fit in Minion Bond. Or did we decide to drop that?

I think we should keep the "banishing minions" bit. We just forgot to include it.

How about giving both Master and Minion a Dependence special quality, e.g.:

Minion Dependence (Ex): Should one of a bone tyrant master's minions be destroyed, the master immediately gains one positive level. This level persists until the master can return to the lower planes and bond with a replacement minion.

If a bone tyrant master is destroyed, all of its minions are immediately banished to the lower planes they originated from.

Master Dependence (Ex): If a bone tyrant minion is destroyed while it is bonded to a bone tyrant master, the master immediately gains one positive level. If the bone tyrant master is destroyed, the minion is immediately banished to the lower plane it originated from.

The original monster Masters always seemed to have 6 minions, so I guess we should stick to that. But maybe the Minions should gain 1 HD per every 3 or 4 HD the Master gains in advancment. I don't think I'd necessarily have the Masters change size, but HD advancement up to maybe 22 HD would work.

Yes, I think something along those lines would be easier.

Hmm, but if we put a HD entry in the Minions' Advancement, that'd mean a Master could bond with Minions that've already been Advanced, which doesn't seem right.

Wouldn't it be better to have a more powerful master give negative levels to Minions it has bonded with, so they get the normal benefits of a "level boost" (+1 bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; increase of 5 hit points; and +1 to effective level) for each negative level.

Then we just need to decide on a HD/negative level ratio.

I like a two-to-one ratio, since that'd mean the Minions and Master's BAB and good saves increase in time with each other.

 

[Cleon]

I like a two-to-one ratio, since that'd mean the Minions and Master's BAB and good saves increase in time with each other.

We could do this by modifying the "Minion Bond" or "Master Dependence" SQs.

Advancement: — (but see Master Dependence)

Master Dependence (Su): If a bone tyrant minion is destroyed while it is bonded to a bone tyrant master, the master immediately gains one positive level. If the bone tyrant master is destroyed, the minion is immediately banished to the lower plane it originated from.

In addition, if a bone tyrant master has advanced its Hit Dice, all minions it is bonded to gain one negative level for every 2 additional HD its master has. These negative levels provide the normal effects to the minions (being undead, each negative level gives a +1 bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; gain of 5 hit points; and +1 to effective level for spells and special abilities). The negative levels last until the minion bond is broken, a minion does not lose any if its master gains positive levels.