Converting First Edition Monsters

[freyar]

In that case, I think the pungi in question should also have a stirge-like blood drain, especially since the authors of the ToH were the founders of our own Creature Catalog!

 

[Cleon]

In that case, I think the pungi in question should also have a stirge-like blood drain, especially since the authors of the ToH were the founders of our own Creature Catalog!

I'm still inclined to make it Con drain for the conversion.

The ToH Giant Leech is explicitly a conversion of the AD&D version - it quotes the 1st edition AD&D Monster Manual as its source. It's slower and does less damage than the original D&D Blackmoor version (Mv 3" vs 6", bite & drain 1-4 vs 2-12).

Also, the AD&D version's blood drain specifically causes hit point damage (just like the AD&D Stirge*), while the OD&D Giant Leech specifically drains "one life level each turn".

There seem to be enough differences between the two to consider the original 1974 version as being a different creature.

*Incidentally, the white-box Stirge drains hit points just like the AD&D Stirge and at the same rate.

 

[freyar]

Hmmm, ok, I guess you've sold me on something more potent than Con damage. But "one life level" sounds more like energy drain than Con drain. What if we do that?

Anyway, if we agree it should be a separate critter rather than an underbar, should we finish the standard pungi ray first?

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm, ok, I guess you've sold me on something more potent than Con damage. But "one life level" sounds more like energy drain than Con drain. What if we do that?

Yes, the OD&D Giant Leech drained levels, but there are monsters that drained levels in earlier editions that do Con drain in 3E, like the Wraith.

As I believe I mentioned before, I was thinking of basing it on the Blood Drain special attack of the SRD Vampire which does Con damage.

Oh, and I guess we might as well go the whole hog and add the lethal disease OD&D leech/pungi ray inflicts when attached.

From Blackmoor
"causing the victim to lose one life level each turn that it remains attached. They can be removed by killing them, but the victim must get a cure disease spell as soon as possible, or die within a month."

Anyway, if we agree it should be a separate critter rather than an underbar, should we finish the standard pungi ray first?

Yes, that seems appropriate. We can call it a "Vampire Pungi Ray" or something.

 

[freyar]

I kind of think that, since we're making a whole separate magical monster, I'd like to go whole hog and make it energy drain. But we can decide later. "Vampire Pungi Ray" will work.

Back to the normal one...

 

[Cleon]

I kind of think that, since we're making a whole separate magical monster, I'd like to go whole hog and make it energy drain. But we can decide later. "Vampire Pungi Ray" will work.

Back to the normal one...

That's fine by me.

Now where were we?

The current Pungi Ray Working Draft is basically just the SRD Manta Ray with some name changes.

Are there any changes we want to make to the basic stats?

Maybe increase the natural armour to +4 so (a) it's AC is 13 to be equivalent to the AD&D version's AC 7, and (b) it natural armour equals that of our Sea Bat conversion [which has +6 NA] if it's reduced to Large size.

 

[freyar]

That would be fine with me. I don't feel a real need to change the basic ability scores any. On to the spines?

 

[Cleon]

That would be fine with me. I don't feel a real need to change the basic ability scores any.

Updating Pungi Ray Working Draft.

On to the spines?

Sure!

My first question is, can the Ray use these offensively? I'm inclined to giving it a "spikes" natural attack.

 

[freyar]

From the original text, it seems they don't really attack actively --- they always flee when attacked themselves. I'd stick with the spines as a more passive hazard-like thing.

 

[Cleon]

From the original text, it seems they don't really attack actively --- they always flee when attacked themselves. I'd stick with the spines as a more passive hazard-like thing.

Yes, but it could be that a Pungi Ray could deliberately stab other creatures with their spines, but their instinct is to swim away from threats. It might even be they swim away so their poison spine encrusted backs are towards the threat.

The main reason I was wondering about allowing them a spines attack is there's a shapeshifting Simorgyan NPC in Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar sourcebook (1996) that can turn into a Pungi Ray, and being able to assume that form isn't of much use if she has to persuade her enemies to step on her to be able to injure them.