Converting "generic setting" second edition monsters

[Echohawk]

If I’m missing any monsters from this list or if any of these have appeared elsewhere already, feel free to inform me.

Hey Boz,

Here are a few more loose monsters from 2nd Edition products that I don't think have been converted yet. Some of these might be on the other conversion threads though -- I didn't check those.

Complete Psionics Handbook (PHBR5)
Cerebral Parasite, p116 (might also be in the Planescape thread?)
Vagabond, p122

Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga
Baba Yaga, p61 (but I'm sure I've seen a conversion somewhere already)

I, Tyrant
Beholder Mount, Patroller, 81

Guide to Hell
Devil, Mezzikim, p63 (might also be in the Planescape thread)

Vortex of Madness and Other Planar Perils
Leonis's Automata, Flyer, p46
Leonis's Automata, Juggernaut, p46
Leonis's Automata, Organ Gun, p46 (these might also be in the Planescape thread)

 

[BOZ]

thanks Echohawk. I don’t mind a little overlap here and there.

There is precedent for "deal enough damage to kill the creature" to escape.

true, but for this once I was considering the possibility of, since the original description says the victims cannot escape, of leaving it at that. Perhaps there is a magical reason, or the stomach is lined with adamantine or something. However, if this is unfair, I can always go with the standard line and just make the damage needed to escape be respectfully high.

I prefer the former.

oh, so no instant death effects for you eh?

 

[Knight Otu]

I think Shade was actually saying that there are creatures where you can only escape if it is killed. Not that I could name any.

I also prefer the former.

 

[BOZ]

well fine then, energy drain it is.

and i didn't catch shade's meaning the first time around, assuming that is what he meant. if so shade, which creature(s) set the aforementioned precedent?

 

[Shade]

Knight is right.

One such critter is the ice toad from OA and more recently, Frostburn:

"A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing weapon to kill the toad from the inside (AC 13)."

 

[BOZ]

Now that is wicked awesome.

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures inside an apodalypse’s interior gain X negative level(s) each round. The DC is X for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is (Charisma)-based. For each such negative level bestowed, the apodalypse gains X temporary hit points.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an apodalypse must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): An apodalypse can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Large or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent is subject to the creature’s energy drain. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to kill the apodalypse from the inside (AC X).
An apodalypse’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.


there is also this to contend with:
“The creature has four secondary attacks from the various limbs, claws, fins, and mouths of its stolen mishmash of a body. The creature is large enough to bite one foe and direct its subsidiary attacks against two additional prey.”

Each “extra limb” does 1d8 base damage regardless of the type. This should be simple to solve. Essentially, the poddy has 4 random attacks each round from a slam, claw, bite, tail slap, sting, gore, tentacle, wing, blah blah etc. the only real difference between them is the type of damage dealt.


As for the progeny, it has an entirely different sort of attack form:

“On a successful bite attack, progeny hang on and begin to burrow into the victim toward the spinal column automatically inflicting 1d4+2 hit points per round. If left unmolested, burrowing progeny reach their goal within 1d4+2 rounds, whereupon the insipid creatures automatically paralyze their hosts. This allows a progeny to begin the process of subsumption; it attempts to digest and then replace both the spinal column and lower brain stem of a victim. The process of subsumption requires 6 full rounds and inflicts 2d4+2 hit points per round upon the victim.

Progeny which are successfully Turned while subsuming a victim's spinal column are permanently destroyed. Applying a burning torch (or applying something similarly harmful) to a burrowing progeny inflicts 1d6 hit points per round on both it and its victim, but better a few burns than to allow the progeny to complete its activities.”

 

[Shade]

there is also this to contend with:
“The creature has four secondary attacks from the various limbs, claws, fins, and mouths of its stolen mishmash of a body. The creature is large enough to bite one foe and direct its subsidiary attacks against two additional prey.”

Each “extra limb” does 1d8 base damage regardless of the type. This should be simple to solve. Essentially, the poddy has 4 random attacks each round from a slam, claw, bite, tail slap, sting, gore, tentacle, wing, blah blah etc. the only real difference between them is the type of damage dealt.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Perhaps a table with a random list of attack forms and the type of damage dealt?

As for the progeny, it has an entirely different sort of attack form:

“On a successful bite attack, progeny hang on and begin to burrow into the victim toward the spinal column automatically inflicting 1d4+2 hit points per round. If left unmolested, burrowing progeny reach their goal within 1d4+2 rounds, whereupon the insipid creatures automatically paralyze their hosts. This allows a progeny to begin the process of subsumption; it attempts to digest and then replace both the spinal column and lower brain stem of a victim. The process of subsumption requires 6 full rounds and inflicts 2d4+2 hit points per round upon the victim.

Progeny which are successfully Turned while subsuming a victim's spinal column are permanently destroyed. Applying a burning torch (or applying something similarly harmful) to a burrowing progeny inflicts 1d6 hit points per round on both it and its victim, but better a few burns than to allow the progeny to complete its activities.”

I know I've seen a creature like this. Got it...the hoard scarab from Draconomicon.

Burrow (Ex): If a hoard scarab hits a Small or larger living creature with a bite attack (or if a hoard scarab swarm hits with its swarm attack), on its next turn it can attempt to burrow into the target's flesh. The target may attempt a Reflex save (DC 11 for an individual scarab, or DC 14 for a swarm) to prevent the hoard scarab from burrowing in (a helpless creature can't prevent the burrowing). If the save fails, each round thereafter the target takes 1d2 points of Constitution damage (from an individual scarab) or 2d4 points of Constitution damage (from a swarm of scarabs).

A hoard scarab doesn't leave a target until the target is dead. Once a hoard scarab has burrowed into its target, it can be destroyed by any effect that would cure a disease, such as remove disease or heal. (A single spell eliminates all burrowing hoard scarabs, though it gives no protection against further burrowings.)

Creatures with immunity to disease, as well as those with a natural armor bonus (including enhancement) of +3 or better, are immune to a hoard scarab's burrowing attack.

 

[Alzrius]

BOZ, you mentioned over on the other thread about this that you hadn't seen the new monster in Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff (which, admittedly, is a GH product, but still). The monster is the Horag, and is found on page 91. Horags are the result of a crossbreeding between an ogre and a hill giant.

 

[BOZ]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Perhaps a table with a random list of attack forms and the type of damage dealt?

I could swear I've seen something like this somewhere before. I kind of prefer to avoid random lists. Let me give this a start:

"Extra Limbs (Ex): An apodalypse has a multitude of appendages on its body stolen from previous victims it has incorporated into its body. It may use up to four of these at random in any given round, which usually consists of a slam, claw, bite, sting, gore, tentacle, tail slap, or wing. Each such attack form deals 1d8 points of damage of the appropriate type."

I know I've seen a creature like this. Got it...the hoard scarab from Draconomicon.

Burrow (Ex): If a hoard scarab hits a Small or larger living creature with a bite attack (or if a hoard scarab swarm hits with its swarm attack), on its next turn it can attempt to burrow into the target's flesh. The target may attempt a Reflex save (DC 11 for an individual scarab, or DC 14 for a swarm) to prevent the hoard scarab from burrowing in (a helpless creature can't prevent the burrowing). If the save fails, each round thereafter the target takes 1d2 points of Constitution damage (from an individual scarab) or 2d4 points of Constitution damage (from a swarm of scarabs).

A hoard scarab doesn't leave a target until the target is dead. Once a hoard scarab has burrowed into its target, it can be destroyed by any effect that would cure a disease, such as remove disease or heal. (A single spell eliminates all burrowing hoard scarabs, though it gives no protection against further burrowings.)

Creatures with immunity to disease, as well as those with a natural armor bonus (including enhancement) of +3 or better, are immune to a hoard scarab's burrowing attack.

Creepy. that reminds me of a magic item from previous editions which was much nastier, the Scarab of Death.

How big was the hoard scarab?

Burrow (Ex): If an apodalypse progeny hits a X-size or larger living creature with a bite attack, on its next turn it can attempt to burrow into the target's flesh. The target may attempt a DC X Reflex save to prevent the progeny from burrowing in (a helpless creature can't prevent the burrowing). If the save fails, each round thereafter the target takes 2d4? points of (Constitution?) damage. The save DC is X-based.

If any damage is dealt to a burrowing progeny, the creature it is burrowing into takes the same amount of damage.

Subsume (Su?): A burrowing apodalypse progeny will reach a creature's spinal column in 1d4+2 rounds, at which point the host will be paralyzed. At this point, the progeny will begin to digest and replace the spinal column and lower brain stem of the victim. The process of subsumption takes 6 full rounds, inflicting 2d6? hit points of damage upon the victim per round. At the end of 6 full rounds, the victim is permanently dead and the progeny takes possession of the body.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

BOZ, you mentioned over on the other thread about this that you hadn't seen the new monster in Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff (which, admittedly, is a GH product, but still). The monster is the Horag, and is found on page 91. Horags are the result of a crossbreeding between an ogre and a hill giant.

OK, I gotcha. I thought I had put this one on my Greyhawk list, but I guess I hadn't.

 

[Shade]

I could swear I've seen something like this somewhere before. I kind of prefer to avoid random lists. Let me give this a start:

"Extra Limbs (Ex): An apodalypse has a multitude of appendages on its body stolen from previous victims it has incorporated into its body. It may use up to four of these at random in any given round, which usually consists of a slam, claw, bite, sting, gore, tentacle, tail slap, or wing. Each such attack form deals 1d8 points of damage of the appropriate type."

While random lists are bad, how else will we determined whether an attack deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?

Creepy. that reminds me of a magic item from previous editions which was much nastier, the Scarab of Death.

How big was the hoard scarab?

It is Fine (about the size of a coin).

Burrow (Ex): If an apodalypse progeny hits a X-size or larger living creature with a bite attack, on its next turn it can attempt to burrow into the target's flesh. The target may attempt a DC X Reflex save to prevent the progeny from burrowing in (a helpless creature can't prevent the burrowing). If the save fails, each round thereafter the target takes 2d4? points of (Constitution?) damage. The save DC is X-based.

If any damage is dealt to a burrowing progeny, the creature it is burrowing into takes the same amount of damage.

Lookin' good. 2d4 Con sounds appropriate for its size. DC appears to be Con-based for the hoard scarab. I'd recommend reducing the progeny to Tiny, and saying that they can burrow into Medium or larger creatures. A Small creature burrowing into a Medium creature seems a bit farfetched, and if we limit them to affecting larger creatures, it sorta takes the threat away from most characters.

Subsume (Su?): A burrowing apodalypse progeny will reach a creature's spinal column in 1d4+2 rounds, at which point the host will be paralyzed. At this point, the progeny will begin to digest and replace the spinal column and lower brain stem of the victim. The process of subsumption takes 6 full rounds, inflicting 2d6? hit points of damage upon the victim per round. At the end of 6 full rounds, the victim is permanently dead and the progeny takes possession of the body.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

"Permanently dead"... heh, heh.

 

[BOZ]

While random lists are bad, how else will we determined whether an attack deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?

each attack would deal the type of damage as listed in the MM p312. DM’s choice, or he could roll dice as he sees fit to make the choice.

It is Fine (about the size of a coin).

hmm, then given that the progeny is Small instead, I’m going to have to assume that while the creature is burrowing into someone’s body that it is not actually fully entering said body. Do you think this will affect the entry as I wrote above?

"Permanently dead"... heh, heh.

heh, what, you no like? there probably is a better way to say that. Something like “cannot be raised except by divine magic” or somesuch.

 

[Shade]

each attack would deal the type of damage as listed in the MM p312. DM’s choice, or he could roll dice as he sees fit to make the choice.

You should add this to the text, then.

hmm, then given that the progeny is Small instead, I’m going to have to assume that while the creature is burrowing into someone’s body that it is not actually fully entering said body. Do you think this will affect the entry as I wrote above?

I still think it would be better as Tiny, since it was listed as S (2') in 2E, and 2 ft. is either the high end of Tiny or the low end of Small.

heh, what, you no like? there probably is a better way to say that. Something like “cannot be raised except by divine magic” or somesuch.

I like it, but yeah, you might want to go with the standard: "X destroys the victim’s body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse." (Borrowed from the barghest in this case).

 

[BOZ]

Extra Limbs (Ex): An apodalypse has a multitude of appendages on its body stolen from previous victims it has incorporated into its body. It may use up to four of these at random in any given round, each of which usually consists of a slam, claw, bite, sting, gore, tentacle, tail slap, or wing. Each such attack form deals 1d8 points of damage of the type appropriate to the attack form (see p. 312 in the Monster Manual).


Burrow (Ex): If an apodalypse progeny hits a X-size or larger living creature with a bite attack, on its next turn it can attempt to burrow into the target's flesh. The target may attempt a DC X Reflex save to prevent the progeny from burrowing in (a helpless creature can't prevent the burrowing). If the save fails, each round thereafter the target takes 2d4 points of Constitution damage. The save DC is X-based.

If any damage is dealt to a burrowing progeny, the creature it is burrowing into takes the same amount of damage.

Subsume (Su?): A burrowing apodalypse progeny will reach a creature's spinal column in 1d4+2 rounds, at which point the host will become paralyzed. Beginning with that round, the progeny will begin to digest and replace the spinal column and lower brain stem of the victim. The process of subsumption takes 6 full rounds, inflicting 2d6? hit points of damage upon the victim per round. At the end of 6 full rounds, the victim is permanently dead and the progeny takes possession of the body.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

I'd recommend reducing the progeny to Tiny, and saying that they can burrow into Medium or larger creatures. A Small creature burrowing into a Medium creature seems a bit farfetched, and if we limit them to affecting larger creatures, it sorta takes the threat away from most characters.

OK, I see your point, and I can make it Tiny (easier to change this now than when we come up with a full set of stats and such). However, as I said before, even at this smaller size I’m going to have to assume that while the creature is burrowing into someone’s body that it is not actually fully entering said body. Do you think this will affect the entry as I wrote above?

I like it, but yeah, you might want to go with the standard: "X destroys the victim’s body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse." (Borrowed from the barghest in this case).

The problem is, the body is not destroyed at all, but transformed:

“If subsumption is successful, the victim is irrevocably lost, and the progeny takes possession of the still-living husk. If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points.”

 

[Shade]

OK, I see where you are coming from on the size thing. I suppose we could reimagine them about the size of a Goa'uld from Stargate, about the size of a footlong snake. Those critters completely hide within a human.

How about combining the two?

“If subsumption is successful, the victim is irrevocably lost, preventing any form of raising or resurrection, although a wish or a miracle spell can restore the victim to life and its original form, destroying the apodalypse. The progeny takes possession of the still-living husk. If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points.”

 

[BOZ]

OK, I see where you are coming from on the size thing. I suppose we could reimagine them about the size of a Goa'uld from Stargate, about the size of a footlong snake. Those critters completely hide within a human.

hello, duh. Thanks for the mental picture; I'm actually seeing this now. And thanks for suggesting I make them Tiny.

When they eat the spinal column, they take the place of the spine because they are serpent-shaped. God, duh! So, yes, they could be inside a human, by replacing part of its skeletal structure.

If subsumption is successful, the victim is irrevocably lost, preventing any form of raising or resurrection, although a wish or a miracle spell can restore the victim to life and its original form, destroying the apodalypse. The progeny takes possession of the still-living husk. If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points.

let me take a hack at this...

Subsume (Su?): A burrowing apodalypse progeny will reach a creature's spinal column in 1d4+2 rounds, at which point the host automatically becomes paralyzed. Beginning with that round, the progeny will begin to digest the spinal column and lower brain stem of the victim. As the progeny eats, it replaces the spinal column with its own body, eventually attaching itself to the victim's brain when complete.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is in the process of subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

The process of subsumption takes 6 full rounds, inflicting 2d6 hit points of damage upon the victim per round. At the end of 6 full rounds, the victim dies and the progeny takes control of the body. Subsumption prevents any form of raising or resurrection, although a wish or a miracle spell can restore the victim to life and its original form, destroying the progeny.


I see this part as flavor-text: "If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points."

 

[Shade]

Looking good. Since turning effects have an impact on the creature, should rebuke or command attempts have any effect?

 

[BOZ]

Posting in homebrews.

Looking good. Since turning effects have an impact on the creature, should rebuke or command attempts have any effect?

it’s a good question. Naturally, this was written before much concern was given to how evil clerics affect undead. Any ideas?

Vulnerability to Turning (Ex): Any turning attempt targeting an apodalypse that would turn or rebuke an undead of the apodalypse's HD dazes the apodalypse for 1 round. A turn attempt that would destroy or command an undead of equivalent Hit Dice instead stuns an apodalypse for 2d4 rounds.

 

[Shade]

Combining it with what you already had...

Vulnerability to Turning (Ex): Any turning attempt targeting an apodalypse progeny that would turn or rebuke an undead of the progeny's HD dazes the progeny for 1 round. A turn attempt that would destroy or command an undead of equivalent Hit Dice instead stuns an apodalypse for 2d4 rounds.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is in the process of subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

I like the idea of killing it outright while in the act of subsumption, since the ability is so deadly.

 

[BOZ]

LOL looks like we already had the rebuking in there.

I like the idea of killing it outright while in the act of subsumption, since the ability is so deadly.

And the creature itself is so weak. it’s a good thing that ability allows for a saving throw, otherwise it would be just insane.

How about some ability scores?

Progeny:
Abilities: Str (14+?), Dex X, Con (12+), Int (--- or 1?), Wis X, Cha X

I suggested the Str based on the fact that it did 1d4+2 damage on a bite, but it doesn’t have to be that high. For the Con, same thing since it had 3+3 HD. For the Int, it is listed with an Int of Non (0), but it could alternatively be just 1. Wis and Cha should be low, maybe even 1 like an ooze. Dex should probably be the highest score.

Apodalypse:
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int (6?), Wis X, Cha X

I imagine the Dex would be lower than the progeny’s. Str and Con should be high, minimum 20 each. Wis and Cha should be at least 10 each. The Cha can be higher actually, to increase the save DC on the energy drain.

 

[Shade]

A few critters for possible inspiration (all Tiny):
Gutworm symbiont: Str 4, Dex 5, Con 12, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 7
Reed snake: Str 4, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Tiny viper: Str 4, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2

Progeny: Str 4, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2

To make up for the lower Str, we could up the damage die or give it Improved Natural Attack.

A few critters for possible inspiration:
Dire Shark (Huge): Str 23, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Megalodon (Gargantuan): Str 31, Dex 15, Con 24, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10

Apodalypse: Str 31, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 14

Strength is the same as a glabrezu and a dire bear, two creatures that came to mind when I tried to imagine its strength. It puts it on par with the one-size-category-larger megalodon as well, which also does 4d6 damage with its jaws.

I placed its Con score between the other two shark creatures listed above.

I figure its Dex is slightly worse than sharks, since it is a hodgepodge of critters.