D&D (2024) The future of edition changes and revisions

Hussar

Legend
They could be non-evil AFTER the war.

These are creatures made via an evil goddess using her evil clergy to cast highly evil magic to make corrupted creatures that were pressed into service to fight a war.

Sure you and your DM can say Draconians are also good and fight the good fight during the War that WotC wants to center things on, but that again changes fluff of the war to a massive degree, which why even have it or the War of the Lance at all.

Me, I can't imagine say playing a LotRs game as an Uruk Hai. It makes zero sense to the established world might as well just play in Faerun.

Again, you are preaching to the converted here. I totally agree and think that good draconians are a very bad idea. And if I ever run a DL campaign I’d likely not have them or maybe just a one off if a player asks really nicely and bribes me with pizza. :)

But that’s my table. I’m not really willing to declare that that should be true for all tables. I’m actually quite happy that WotC is leaving it up to individual tables.

Isn’t dm empowerment what 5e is all about?

You can’t really empower dms while at the same time tell them that they are doing it wrong. So the compromise is you support everyone a bit.

Granted I do think the latest kender are mind numbingly boring. But then I can always add back in kender pockets. That’s the point here. Everyone is now being expected to make settings their own.

At least that’s how I see things. Not that I’m particularly happy with changes or unhappy. I’m okay with the idea that while I might not like some of the changes, that just means someone else likely is.
 

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Hussar

Legend
Honestly the biggest difference between FR and Greyhawk is simply volume.

How many pages of information is there about FR compared to Greyhawk?

As far as the rest though? They’re not really all that different.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Honestly the biggest difference between FR and Greyhawk is simply volume.

How many pages of information is there about FR compared to Greyhawk?

As far as the rest though? They’re not really all that different.
There are flavor and texture differences.

A heaping plate of enchiladas and a big burrito have the same material, but provide a different experience.
 

Staffan

Legend
There are flavor and texture differences.

A heaping plate of enchiladas and a big burrito have the same material, but provide a different experience.
A better comparison would be a Whopper and a Big Mac. There are certainly differences between them, and it's totally valid to prefer one over the other. But if given a choice between a burger, a plate of sushi, or a pizza, it doesn't much matter if the burger on offer is a Whopper or a Big Mac.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Honestly the biggest difference between FR and Greyhawk is simply volume.

How many pages of information is there about FR compared to Greyhawk?

As far as the rest though? They’re not really all that different.
Isn't this similar to just about anything, where it depends upon how you set the "microscope" and/or one's interest level/knowledge?

For the former, I mean, both are kitchen sink fantasy settings for D&D - but that's at a macro-level. Dialing in the scope, more and more differences stand out, and differences in flavor and atmosphere emerge.

As for the latter, to me - as a non-country music fan - all country music sounds basically the same. I mean, I can pick out and enjoy Johnny Cash, but if I turn on a pop country station, it all sounds the same (and not very pleasing to my own sensibilities).

But if you ask me about the different flavors of funk music, I can give you a verbal dissertation on its variations and history. For me, there's a world of difference between, say, Funkadelic and Graham Central Station and the Headhunters.

Now if I asked a friend to browse through the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, she might say, "are these the same world?" But if she read them cover-to-cover she'd pick up differences, and if she explored the various available materials over the years, they would become even more differentiated....and even more so if she played in a campaign in both, with a DM who really "got" the respective settings.

The point being, I hear what you are saying - but only from a very macro level and/or from the perspective of a "non-connoisseur" of D&D settings, or fantasy in general. But if you dial in the scope and/or acquire a palate for fantasy and D&D settings, they stand out in greater contrast. I would say this is especially true if we take Gygax's Greyhawk (WoG box set) and Greenwood's Realms (gray box) - one is Gygax's mind, the other is Greenwood's mind.

As an aside, this is why I loved teaching world-building to a group of high school students some years ago. I didn't frame it as, or connect it to D&D or fantasy in any way. It was amazing how different each world was - and how each expressed the uniqueness of the student. Now if I had said, "create a world of fantasy adventure," the differences would smooth out somewhat. Many of them would have been influenced by the LotR films or Harry Potter or video games. But they'd still all have their own unique flavorings.
 

HammerMan

Legend
Of course, we then again get into values dissonance, as you have to encourage murdering the conscripts in order to see the cool things they do when they die.
Don’t worry all the thugs and petty criminals Batman puts in the hospital are all bad people. Now all of the soldiers on the other side of the war are monsters… no good people no neutral people just bad.


Wouldn’t want to make the TTRPG force you to role play interacting with individuals
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
A better comparison would be a Whopper and a Big Mac. There are certainly differences between them, and it's totally valid to prefer one over the other. But if given a choice between a burger, a plate of sushi, or a pizza, it doesn't much matter if the burger on offer is a Whopper or a Big Mac.
No, the Mexican analogy is more appropriate, I feel. Someone who hates Mexican food (probably because they hate rainbows and Sunsets or something) isn't going to see a difference between a plate of New Mexico Enchiladas and a wet Burrito, but enthusiasts could go on and on about the differences and subtlties.
 

Hussar

Legend
See, I look at it like this.

If I wanted to run an adventure set in Sharn, it would likely be a very different adventure if I ported it into Greyhawk or Waterdeep. Eberron and the other two setting are just so different.

But, I can take Ghosts of Saltmarsh (or, in fact the older modules all of those modules are based on) and move Saltmarsh to the Sword Coast without changing much more than proper nouns. Virtually nothing changes. Conversely, I can take classic Greyhawk adventures like Cult of the Reptile God or the Slavers series and plonk it down into Forgotten Realms, and, again, other than changing proper nouns, there really isn't much that needs to change.

Are they different settings? Sure. No problems with that. But, they really aren't all that different when you drill down to it. Heck, look at the first three Paizo Adventure Paths - Shackled City, Age of Worms and Savage Tides. All three have conversion documents for plonking these adventures into Forgotten Realms and it really doesn't take a lot of work. Mostly just changing proper nouns.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
See, I look at it like this.

If I wanted to run an adventure set in Sharn, it would likely be a very different adventure if I ported it into Greyhawk or Waterdeep. Eberron and the other two setting are just so different.

But, I can take Ghosts of Saltmarsh (or, in fact the older modules all of those modules are based on) and move Saltmarsh to the Sword Coast without changing much more than proper nouns. Virtually nothing changes. Conversely, I can take classic Greyhawk adventures like Cult of the Reptile God or the Slavers series and plonk it down into Forgotten Realms, and, again, other than changing proper nouns, there really isn't much that needs to change.

Are they different settings? Sure. No problems with that. But, they really aren't all that different when you drill down to it. Heck, look at the first three Paizo Adventure Paths - Shackled City, Age of Worms and Savage Tides. All three have conversion documents for plonking these adventures into Forgotten Realms and it really doesn't take a lot of work. Mostly just changing proper nouns.
Right, just a pile of rice & beans with meat and a tomato sauce.
 

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