Converting "generic setting" second edition monsters

[BOZ]

While random lists are bad, how else will we determined whether an attack deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?

each attack would deal the type of damage as listed in the MM p312. DM’s choice, or he could roll dice as he sees fit to make the choice.

It is Fine (about the size of a coin).

hmm, then given that the progeny is Small instead, I’m going to have to assume that while the creature is burrowing into someone’s body that it is not actually fully entering said body. Do you think this will affect the entry as I wrote above?

"Permanently dead"... heh, heh.

heh, what, you no like? there probably is a better way to say that. Something like “cannot be raised except by divine magic” or somesuch.

 

[Shade]

each attack would deal the type of damage as listed in the MM p312. DM’s choice, or he could roll dice as he sees fit to make the choice.

You should add this to the text, then.

hmm, then given that the progeny is Small instead, I’m going to have to assume that while the creature is burrowing into someone’s body that it is not actually fully entering said body. Do you think this will affect the entry as I wrote above?

I still think it would be better as Tiny, since it was listed as S (2') in 2E, and 2 ft. is either the high end of Tiny or the low end of Small.

heh, what, you no like? there probably is a better way to say that. Something like “cannot be raised except by divine magic” or somesuch.

I like it, but yeah, you might want to go with the standard: "X destroys the victim’s body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse." (Borrowed from the barghest in this case).

 

[BOZ]

Extra Limbs (Ex): An apodalypse has a multitude of appendages on its body stolen from previous victims it has incorporated into its body. It may use up to four of these at random in any given round, each of which usually consists of a slam, claw, bite, sting, gore, tentacle, tail slap, or wing. Each such attack form deals 1d8 points of damage of the type appropriate to the attack form (see p. 312 in the Monster Manual).


Burrow (Ex): If an apodalypse progeny hits a X-size or larger living creature with a bite attack, on its next turn it can attempt to burrow into the target's flesh. The target may attempt a DC X Reflex save to prevent the progeny from burrowing in (a helpless creature can't prevent the burrowing). If the save fails, each round thereafter the target takes 2d4 points of Constitution damage. The save DC is X-based.

If any damage is dealt to a burrowing progeny, the creature it is burrowing into takes the same amount of damage.

Subsume (Su?): A burrowing apodalypse progeny will reach a creature's spinal column in 1d4+2 rounds, at which point the host will become paralyzed. Beginning with that round, the progeny will begin to digest and replace the spinal column and lower brain stem of the victim. The process of subsumption takes 6 full rounds, inflicting 2d6? hit points of damage upon the victim per round. At the end of 6 full rounds, the victim is permanently dead and the progeny takes possession of the body.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

I'd recommend reducing the progeny to Tiny, and saying that they can burrow into Medium or larger creatures. A Small creature burrowing into a Medium creature seems a bit farfetched, and if we limit them to affecting larger creatures, it sorta takes the threat away from most characters.

OK, I see your point, and I can make it Tiny (easier to change this now than when we come up with a full set of stats and such). However, as I said before, even at this smaller size I’m going to have to assume that while the creature is burrowing into someone’s body that it is not actually fully entering said body. Do you think this will affect the entry as I wrote above?

I like it, but yeah, you might want to go with the standard: "X destroys the victim’s body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse." (Borrowed from the barghest in this case).

The problem is, the body is not destroyed at all, but transformed:

“If subsumption is successful, the victim is irrevocably lost, and the progeny takes possession of the still-living husk. If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points.”

 

[Shade]

OK, I see where you are coming from on the size thing. I suppose we could reimagine them about the size of a Goa'uld from Stargate, about the size of a footlong snake. Those critters completely hide within a human.

How about combining the two?

“If subsumption is successful, the victim is irrevocably lost, preventing any form of raising or resurrection, although a wish or a miracle spell can restore the victim to life and its original form, destroying the apodalypse. The progeny takes possession of the still-living husk. If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points.”

 

[BOZ]

OK, I see where you are coming from on the size thing. I suppose we could reimagine them about the size of a Goa'uld from Stargate, about the size of a footlong snake. Those critters completely hide within a human.

hello, duh. Thanks for the mental picture; I'm actually seeing this now. And thanks for suggesting I make them Tiny.

When they eat the spinal column, they take the place of the spine because they are serpent-shaped. God, duh! So, yes, they could be inside a human, by replacing part of its skeletal structure.

If subsumption is successful, the victim is irrevocably lost, preventing any form of raising or resurrection, although a wish or a miracle spell can restore the victim to life and its original form, destroying the apodalypse. The progeny takes possession of the still-living husk. If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points.

let me take a hack at this...

Subsume (Su?): A burrowing apodalypse progeny will reach a creature's spinal column in 1d4+2 rounds, at which point the host automatically becomes paralyzed. Beginning with that round, the progeny will begin to digest the spinal column and lower brain stem of the victim. As the progeny eats, it replaces the spinal column with its own body, eventually attaching itself to the victim's brain when complete.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is in the process of subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

The process of subsumption takes 6 full rounds, inflicting 2d6 hit points of damage upon the victim per round. At the end of 6 full rounds, the victim dies and the progeny takes control of the body. Subsumption prevents any form of raising or resurrection, although a wish or a miracle spell can restore the victim to life and its original form, destroying the progeny.


I see this part as flavor-text: "If allowed the time to slowly incorporate the recently acquired flesh, it transforms itself (over a month's time) into an apodalypse with minimum hit points."

 

[Shade]

Looking good. Since turning effects have an impact on the creature, should rebuke or command attempts have any effect?

 

[BOZ]

Posting in homebrews.

Looking good. Since turning effects have an impact on the creature, should rebuke or command attempts have any effect?

it’s a good question. Naturally, this was written before much concern was given to how evil clerics affect undead. Any ideas?

Vulnerability to Turning (Ex): Any turning attempt targeting an apodalypse that would turn or rebuke an undead of the apodalypse's HD dazes the apodalypse for 1 round. A turn attempt that would destroy or command an undead of equivalent Hit Dice instead stuns an apodalypse for 2d4 rounds.

 

[Shade]

Combining it with what you already had...

Vulnerability to Turning (Ex): Any turning attempt targeting an apodalypse progeny that would turn or rebuke an undead of the progeny's HD dazes the progeny for 1 round. A turn attempt that would destroy or command an undead of equivalent Hit Dice instead stuns an apodalypse for 2d4 rounds.

Any successful turning attempt on a progeny that is in the process of subsuming its host will kill the progeny instantly and end the subsumption.

I like the idea of killing it outright while in the act of subsumption, since the ability is so deadly.

 

[BOZ]

LOL looks like we already had the rebuking in there.

I like the idea of killing it outright while in the act of subsumption, since the ability is so deadly.

And the creature itself is so weak. it’s a good thing that ability allows for a saving throw, otherwise it would be just insane.

How about some ability scores?

Progeny:
Abilities: Str (14+?), Dex X, Con (12+), Int (--- or 1?), Wis X, Cha X

I suggested the Str based on the fact that it did 1d4+2 damage on a bite, but it doesn’t have to be that high. For the Con, same thing since it had 3+3 HD. For the Int, it is listed with an Int of Non (0), but it could alternatively be just 1. Wis and Cha should be low, maybe even 1 like an ooze. Dex should probably be the highest score.

Apodalypse:
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int (6?), Wis X, Cha X

I imagine the Dex would be lower than the progeny’s. Str and Con should be high, minimum 20 each. Wis and Cha should be at least 10 each. The Cha can be higher actually, to increase the save DC on the energy drain.

 

[Shade]

A few critters for possible inspiration (all Tiny):
Gutworm symbiont: Str 4, Dex 5, Con 12, Int 5, Wis 10, Cha 7
Reed snake: Str 4, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Tiny viper: Str 4, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2

Progeny: Str 4, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2

To make up for the lower Str, we could up the damage die or give it Improved Natural Attack.

A few critters for possible inspiration:
Dire Shark (Huge): Str 23, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10
Megalodon (Gargantuan): Str 31, Dex 15, Con 24, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 10

Apodalypse: Str 31, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 14

Strength is the same as a glabrezu and a dire bear, two creatures that came to mind when I tried to imagine its strength. It puts it on par with the one-size-category-larger megalodon as well, which also does 4d6 damage with its jaws.

I placed its Con score between the other two shark creatures listed above.

I figure its Dex is slightly worse than sharks, since it is a hodgepodge of critters.