Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[Cleon]

Updated Homebrews with your updates.

For the ability scores of the smaller ones, should we downsize per normal size rules or look for similarly-sized sauropods?

I think we'd better tweak them a bit, at least the damage and natural armour, and possible the Strength, to make the Advanced version of each stage a little weaker than the stage above it.

e.g.:

Advanced Elder: Colossal, 24 HD, Str 42, Dex 11, Con 31, NA +18, stamp 7d6*
Elder: Gargantuan, 24 HD, Str 42, Dex 11, Con 27, NA +18, stamp 5d8
Advanced Adult: Gargantuan, 20 HD, Str 38, Dex 11, Con 25, NA +16, stamp 4d8
Adult: Huge, 12 HD, Str 30, Dex 11, Con 21, NA +12, stamp 3d8
Juvenile: Huge, 9 HD, Str 26, Dex 11, Con 19, NA +10, stamp 3d6
Juvenile: Large, 4 HD, Str 18, Dex 11, Con 15, NA +7, stamp 2d6

* Or, at least I think a 5d8 damage becomes 7d8 with 1 size advancement. 5d8 damage doesn't appear on the SRD in the Improved Natural Attack feat or either the Larger and Smaller Weapon Damage or Increased Damage By Size tables.

Hmm, maybe we should change the stamp to 6d8 for the Elder? The damage progression could go...

8d8 Advanced Elder
6d8 stamp Elder
6d6 Advanced Adult
4d6 Adult
3d6 Advanced Juvenile
2d6 Juvenile

 

[Shade]

The Str seems about right (the adult has a score equal to the similar-sized triceratops), but the Con seems low (adult is 4 less than triceratops, and 1 less than the smaller and weaker elasmosaurus).

 

[Cleon]

The Str seems about right (the adult has a score equal to the similar-sized triceratops), but the Con seems low (adult is 4 less than triceratops, and 1 less than the smaller and weaker elasmosaurus).

I scaled the Str and Con based on the SRD Elephant for the "Adult". I have no objection to adding +4 to the Constitution:

Elder: Gargantuan, 24 HD, Str 42, Dex 11, Con 31, NA +18, stamp 6d8
Adult: Huge, 12 HD, Str 30, Dex 11, Con 25, NA +12, stamp 4d6
Juvenile: Large, 4 HD, Str 18, Dex 11, Con 19, NA +7, stamp 2d6

 

[freyar]

I can go with that.

Shall we start on the quaking?

The quakedancer then roots the toes of its middle legs into the ground and balances its large body on these two pivots. Slowly at first, then faster and faster, it rocks back and forth from its front legs to its back like a living see-saw, pumping with its neck and tail to produce more force, resoundingly crashing its bulk down with each swing.

The impact produced by this constant ground-pounding creates nerve-shattering shock waves in the beast’s vicinity, stunning unlucky creatures smaller than itself that happen to be too close to it. It takes 3-6 rounds of rocking to warm up to the stunning attacks. Creatures within range must make a save vs. paralysis every round that the quakedancer maintains its stunning attack (it makes only one stomp per round) or be stunned for 2d4 rounds; details on what creature sizes are affected and the range of the attack are given in the Quakedancer Growth Table.

Stunning effects are cumulative to a maximum of 20 rounds. Once sufficient stunned prey is present for the quakedancer'’s appetite (about 2d6 creatures of the largest size it can affect, or more of smaller sizes), it will cease its stomping and automatically swallow its stricken prey whole at the rate of one creature per round. No to-hit roll is needed for such swallowing; moving prey is ignored unless it attacks, in which case the quakedancer attempts to stomp and bite the victim. A swallowed victim either dies from suffocation (as per the rules on breath-holding in the Player’s Handbook, page 122; monsters use twice their hit dice for an equivalent constitution score) or takes 3d8 hp damage per round from the beasts’ stomach acids, starting on the third round after the victim is swallowed.

Seems like we basically choose a range for each size and say critters within the range must make a Fort save or be stunned (or maybe unconscious, since the victims seem pretty helpless). Rather than say that a given quakedancer affects only critters up to a certain size, I'd prefer to let the Fort save handle it -- bigger critters usually have better Fort saves. Not sure what to do about the warm up period; I feel like we've had those before.

 

[Cleon]

I can go with that.

Shall we start on the quaking?

Seems like we basically choose a range for each size and say critters within the range must make a Fort save or be stunned (or maybe unconscious, since the victims seem pretty helpless). Rather than say that a given quakedancer affects only critters up to a certain size, I'd prefer to let the Fort save handle it -- bigger critters usually have better Fort saves. Not sure what to do about the warm up period; I feel like we've had those before.

Do you want to keep the cumulative stunning? That seems overly harsh.

As for the size requirement, I'd rather keep the "smaller than the Quakedancer" bit.

As for the "warm-up" period, I'm thinking we should make Quakedancing a full-round action, and require 1 round to begin a shakin', then have Fort checks in the second and subsequent rounds.

Regarding the Fort save argument, I suspect these things are going to end up with a very high DC on the stun save, so a high-Fort critter may still have a poor change of making the save.

Anyhow, care to rough something out?

Oh, and should there be some kind of check to see whether creatures fall over, as in the effects of a earthquake spell in open terrain:

Open Ground
Each creature standing in the area must make a DC 15 Reflex save or fall down. Fissures open in the earth, and every creature on the ground has a 25% chance to fall into one (Reflex DC 20 to avoid a fissure). At the end of the spell, all fissures grind shut, killing any creatures still trapped within.

 

[freyar]

I could see stunning once for 2d4 rounds, but then the victim has to save again once it wakes up maybe.

Making dancing a full round action with the effect starting at the end of the first full round makes good sense.

I see your point about the difficulty of the Fort save. But I'd rather base immunity to dancing on HD rather than size, as it's a bit more standard. I'll think about it.

I wouldn't want quake dancing to knock critters prone much; this seems more like large-scale subsonics to me rather than an actual earthquake.

I'll post a try at this in a bit.

 

[Cleon]

I see your point about the difficulty of the Fort save. But I'd rather base immunity to dancing on HD rather than size, as it's a bit more standard. I'll think about it.

I'm happy making it size-based, non standard as it is.

As for basing it on HD, are you thinking something like the Quakedance stuns creatures with fewer HD than the Quakedancer, and maybe staggers creatures with HD up to twice the 'dancer's?

I suppose something like that might work, but I would like to keep a size component in there somehow.

 

[Shade]

I'll post a try at this in a bit.

I quake as I await your dance.

 

[Cleon]

I quake as I await your dance.

Well I'm still quaking in anticipation...

 

[Shade]

Well I'm still quaking in anticipation...

He must've gone dancing.