Converting monsters from Dragon magazine
- Thread starter Shade
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Cleon
Hero
I didn't forget, but the risk of heart-bursting only kicks in at the infestation's final stage when its physical ability boosts max out. The Aggressiveness starts at the same time as the ability increases.
Still, it doesn't hurt to add a placeholder note to the previous post's Infestation working draft.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I can go along with this version of Phasing and that Infestation as a first draft. Let's deal with some of the red text. A CL check sounds more "3.X" than requiring an actual caster level for remove curse or remove disease. DC 15 seems ok, as it's pretty easy for a 9th level caster, I assume as intended.
Next, the salt suff looks ok, but I'm not sure about the tablespoon of salt vs the overdose. Am I forgetting something in the SRD about salt sickening?
Next, the salt suff looks ok, but I'm not sure about the tablespoon of salt vs the overdose. Am I forgetting something in the SRD about salt sickening?
Cleon
Hero
Updating Powerslug Working Draft.
I'm OK going the CL route, although bear in mind that makes it a bit trivial since anyone who can cast that spell could just try again and again until they succeed. Of course they might have to deal with their patient trying to beat the snot out of them while doing so, but that applies to the other methods too.
After a bit of contemplation, a DC 20 caster level check might be better. That'd give the original 9th level requirement a 50-50 chance of making it. A DC 15 would give the minimum CL for the 3rd spell (5th barring tomfoolery) a 55% chance and a CL 9th 75%.
What part of "homebrew" in " Methinks I'll homebrew some rules on Hypernatremia in there while I'm at it!" escaped you?
Anyhow, if you're OK with the salty stuff shall I de-red that too?
Cleon
Hero
Originally had the next couple of questions in post #1584, but decided it made it clearer to separate them into their own posts…
Do you prefer alchemical or circumstance for the ability score bonuses?
I dithered about having them accumulate randomly (say, increasing by +2 every 3d6+20 days). Something like:
After 3d6+20 days, the host gains +2 alchemical bonuses to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution (roll the time separately for each ability). These bonuses increase by an additional +2 every 3d6+20 days to a maximum of +8 after 12d6+80 days.
What do you think? That still works out to about a month per +2, since 3d6+10 averages to 30.5, but it feels a bit more "organic" to have the time required spread over a range.
Do you prefer alchemical or circumstance for the ability score bonuses?
I dithered about having them accumulate randomly (say, increasing by +2 every 3d6+20 days). Something like:
After 3d6+20 days, the host gains +2 alchemical bonuses to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution (roll the time separately for each ability). These bonuses increase by an additional +2 every 3d6+20 days to a maximum of +8 after 12d6+80 days.
What do you think? That still works out to about a month per +2, since 3d6+10 averages to 30.5, but it feels a bit more "organic" to have the time required spread over a range.
Cleon
Hero
For the "stuff about aggressiveness" I'm thinking it ought to be a Wisdom check to determine whether they go mental when provoked, similar to a lycanthrope's Control Shape check. Presumably there's no "Control Aggression" class skill for sufferers of this affliction. I thought about allowing Autohypnosis or Concentration checks, but the DC is so low those would be trivial for any character with a decent investment in those skills.
Once a creature gains a bonus to Strength, Dexterity or Constitution from a powerslug infestation they become increasingly aggressive. Whenever something happens that might provoke anger, the character must succeed at a Wisdom check or lose their temper. For a minor provocation, such as someone spilling their drink, the [DC is 5 for every +2 of physical ability bonus, so DC 5 for +2, DC 10 for +4, DC 15 for +6 and DC 20 for +8]. A moderate provocation, such as being slapped without cause, adds another [+5] to the DC. A severe provocation, such as being attacked, adds [+10] to the DC. If the creature fails this Wisdom check they will attack the provoking object or creature for as long as the provocation lasts plus [1d6? or 1d4? or 1d8?] rounds. Attempting to forcibly remove the powerslug is a serious provocation. All creatures infested with powerslugs hate the taste of salt, so giving one salty food is always at least a moderate provocation, whether it's a coincidence or an attempt to expel the powerslug.
Once a creature gains a bonus to Strength, Dexterity or Constitution from a powerslug infestation they become increasingly aggressive. Whenever something happens that might provoke anger, the character must succeed at a Wisdom check or lose their temper. For a minor provocation, such as someone spilling their drink, the [DC is 5 for every +2 of physical ability bonus, so DC 5 for +2, DC 10 for +4, DC 15 for +6 and DC 20 for +8]. A moderate provocation, such as being slapped without cause, adds another [+5] to the DC. A severe provocation, such as being attacked, adds [+10] to the DC. If the creature fails this Wisdom check they will attack the provoking object or creature for as long as the provocation lasts plus [1d6? or 1d4? or 1d8?] rounds. Attempting to forcibly remove the powerslug is a serious provocation. All creatures infested with powerslugs hate the taste of salt, so giving one salty food is always at least a moderate provocation, whether it's a coincidence or an attempt to expel the powerslug.
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Cleon
Hero
For the "heart exploding" I'm thinking it ought to be a Constitution check and only trigger after a period of intense activity, maybe 1d4 rounds? I'm also wondering whether we should add slowly accumulating damage and/or risk of death so a powerslug infestation will eventually kill the host even if they never exert themselves.
How's this for an outline:
Once all a powerslug host's physical ability scores gain a +8 alchemical bonus, the enormous strain on its heart endangers their life. At the start of each day, the host must make a primary Fortitude save against heart failure ([DC ??, increased by +1 for each previous day [up to a maximum of DC 30?]). If it fails this Fort save, the host's heart is damaged and should they exert themselves that day, even if it's only a round of running, they must succeed at another Fortitude save (same DC) or suffer [?? Con damage? circumstance penalty to Constitution?]. The creature must repeat these secondary Fortitude saves for every exertion that day, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous save, until they stop all exertions or their Constitution is reduced to zero and they die. Each minute of a protracted exertion requires a separate Fort save. A night's rest heals Fort DC increases from normal exertions, reverting the Fort save to its primary value of [DD ?? plus 1 per day (max ??)]. A full day's rest can heal [1 point?, or 1d3? with a DC ?? Heal check?] of heart damage or, once the Constitution score is fully cured, lowers their primary Fort save by any excess points, down to a minimum of its starting [DC ??]. A restoration or cure critical wounds spell will heal [a few points? a dice? 1 per X CLs?] of heart damage, while a greater restoration or heal will cure all the heart damage and reverts the Fortitude save to its base [DC ??].
In addition, if the host performs extremely vigorous activity, such as combat, there is a risk of them damaging their heart or even dying. If their heart is already damaged due to failing their primary Fort save (see above), the host must succeed at a [DC 15?] Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack. If their heart is undamaged, the host must make a primary Fort save or their heart becomes damaged (as above) and then, if the vigorous activity continues for 1d4 rounds, they must succeed at a [DC 15?] Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack. The host must repeat these Constitution checks every minute of vigorous activity, each of which also does [1d4 points?] of heart damage to the host unless they succeed on a secondary Fort save against heart failure (see above). Each of these Constitution checks is as arduous as a day of normal activity and increases the creature's primary Fort save against heart failures by +1.
Yeesh! I got a bit carried away there. Let's try a simpler version:
Once all a powerslug host's physical ability scores gain a +8 alchemical bonus, the enormous strain on their body damages their heart. If the host performs extremely vigorous activity, such as combat, for 1d4+1 rounds, they must succeed at a [DC 10?] Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack and die over [#d#] rounds. The save must be repeated each 1d4+1 additional rounds of vigorous activity, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous check. The rounds of vigorous activity need not be consecutive or on the same action. The accumulated strain of vigorous activity can be healed by rest down to the minimum of [DC 10?]: a night's sleep lowers the Con check DC by –1, a full day's rest lowers the DC by 1d2, and long-term care with a DC 15 Heal check lowers it by –3 per day. A restoration or cure critical wounds spell can prevent a host dying from a heart attack, the restoration also lowers the Con check DC by –5. A heal or greater restoration completely cures a fatal heart attack and sets the Con check starting value to DC 5.
How's this for an outline:
Once all a powerslug host's physical ability scores gain a +8 alchemical bonus, the enormous strain on its heart endangers their life. At the start of each day, the host must make a primary Fortitude save against heart failure ([DC ??, increased by +1 for each previous day [up to a maximum of DC 30?]). If it fails this Fort save, the host's heart is damaged and should they exert themselves that day, even if it's only a round of running, they must succeed at another Fortitude save (same DC) or suffer [?? Con damage? circumstance penalty to Constitution?]. The creature must repeat these secondary Fortitude saves for every exertion that day, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous save, until they stop all exertions or their Constitution is reduced to zero and they die. Each minute of a protracted exertion requires a separate Fort save. A night's rest heals Fort DC increases from normal exertions, reverting the Fort save to its primary value of [DD ?? plus 1 per day (max ??)]. A full day's rest can heal [1 point?, or 1d3? with a DC ?? Heal check?] of heart damage or, once the Constitution score is fully cured, lowers their primary Fort save by any excess points, down to a minimum of its starting [DC ??]. A restoration or cure critical wounds spell will heal [a few points? a dice? 1 per X CLs?] of heart damage, while a greater restoration or heal will cure all the heart damage and reverts the Fortitude save to its base [DC ??].
In addition, if the host performs extremely vigorous activity, such as combat, there is a risk of them damaging their heart or even dying. If their heart is already damaged due to failing their primary Fort save (see above), the host must succeed at a [DC 15?] Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack. If their heart is undamaged, the host must make a primary Fort save or their heart becomes damaged (as above) and then, if the vigorous activity continues for 1d4 rounds, they must succeed at a [DC 15?] Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack. The host must repeat these Constitution checks every minute of vigorous activity, each of which also does [1d4 points?] of heart damage to the host unless they succeed on a secondary Fort save against heart failure (see above). Each of these Constitution checks is as arduous as a day of normal activity and increases the creature's primary Fort save against heart failures by +1.
Yeesh! I got a bit carried away there. Let's try a simpler version:
Once all a powerslug host's physical ability scores gain a +8 alchemical bonus, the enormous strain on their body damages their heart. If the host performs extremely vigorous activity, such as combat, for 1d4+1 rounds, they must succeed at a [DC 10?] Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack and die over [#d#] rounds. The save must be repeated each 1d4+1 additional rounds of vigorous activity, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous check. The rounds of vigorous activity need not be consecutive or on the same action. The accumulated strain of vigorous activity can be healed by rest down to the minimum of [DC 10?]: a night's sleep lowers the Con check DC by –1, a full day's rest lowers the DC by 1d2, and long-term care with a DC 15 Heal check lowers it by –3 per day. A restoration or cure critical wounds spell can prevent a host dying from a heart attack, the restoration also lowers the Con check DC by –5. A heal or greater restoration completely cures a fatal heart attack and sets the Con check starting value to DC 5.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Whew that's a lot!
OK, DC 20 is fine.
I think I must have missed the word "homebrew" there somewhere!
I do like the 3d6+10 days for each +2 boost.
I like the aggressiveness bit, but the original talks about "fighting to the death." So shouldn't the host attack until the offending creature is dead or flees, not just for a while after the provocation ends?
The simplified heart attack paragraph is good. Let's stick to that. The red values are ok. Maybe the heart attack kills over 3d10 rounds? That averages about a minute, so it's a major heart attack I guess, which sounds right.
OK, DC 20 is fine.
I think I must have missed the word "homebrew" there somewhere!
I do like the 3d6+10 days for each +2 boost.
I like the aggressiveness bit, but the original talks about "fighting to the death." So shouldn't the host attack until the offending creature is dead or flees, not just for a while after the provocation ends?
The simplified heart attack paragraph is good. Let's stick to that. The red values are ok. Maybe the heart attack kills over 3d10 rounds? That averages about a minute, so it's a major heart attack I guess, which sounds right.
Cleon
Hero
Whew that's a lot!
OK, DC 20 is fine.
I think I must have missed the word "homebrew" there somewhere!
I do like the 3d6+10 days for each +2 boost.
I like the aggressiveness bit, but the original talks about "fighting to the death." So shouldn't the host attack until the offending creature is dead or flees, not just for a while after the provocation ends?
I was attempting to use the wording of some WotC Rage and Frenzy special abilities, but have no objection to including a "fighting to the death" phrase.
Also, I was going to mention the calm emotions spell in there but somehow forgot.
How about changing that sentence to:
If the creature fails this Wisdom check they will attack the provoking object or creature in a violent frenzy. This frenzy lasts until the host dies, loses consciousness, or the provoking creature or object is either out of their sight for [1d6? or 1d4? or 1d8?] rounds or destroyed; if the provoking creature flees the host will pursue them. A calm emotion spell will stop the frenzy if the host fails their Will save.
3d10 is 16.5 so that's 99 seconds, or 1.65 minutes. If you want a minute, how about 4d4 rounds? That averages to exactly 60 seconds!
Also, there's some mixes of DC10 and DC5 in there that need cleaning up. I think I'll start it at DC 5, so an exceptionally hale Con 18 character can reliably fight for at least one period before risking the fatal heart attack.
Revision:
Once all a powerslug host's physical ability scores gain a +8 alchemical bonus, the enormous strain on their body damages their heart. If the host performs extremely vigorous activity, such as combat, for 1d4+1 rounds, they must succeed at a DC 5 Constitution check or suffer a fatal heart attack and die over 4d4 rounds. The save must be repeated each 1d4+1 additional rounds of vigorous activity, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous check. The rounds of vigorous activity need not be consecutive or on the same action. The accumulated strain of vigorous activity can be healed by rest down to the minimum of DC 5: a night's sleep lowers the Con check DC by –1, a full day's rest lowers the DC by 1d2, and long-term care with a DC 15 Heal check lowers it by –3 per day. A restoration or cure critical wounds spell can prevent a host dying from a heart attack, the restoration also lowers the Con check DC by –5 (minimum DC 5). A heal or greater restoration completely cures a fatal heart attack and sets the Con check starting value to DC 5.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
OK, your revised frenzy text works for me. Let's go with 1d4 rounds.
I also like the heart attack paragraph.
Ready to insert the POWER and Infestation abilities? Oh, BTW, I think we should just call it POWER. That would be great!
Split the skill points equally between Hide and Swim? Something like Alertness or Stealthy for the feat?
I also like the heart attack paragraph.
Ready to insert the POWER and Infestation abilities? Oh, BTW, I think we should just call it POWER. That would be great!
Split the skill points equally between Hide and Swim? Something like Alertness or Stealthy for the feat?
Cleon
Hero
Good!
With or without the ALL CAPS and the EXCLAMATION!!!!!! mark?
Updating Powerslug Working Draft with POWER!
Added a "The effects on the host are detailed below (see POWER!)" sentence in Infestation.
We also need to describe an end to POWER, tragic though that would be.
I've added the following:
If the infesting powerslug is removed, the host creature immediately loses all the physical ability bonuses and aggressiveness from the infestation, but they continue to be at risk of a fatal heart attack, retaining the Constitution check DC they had when the powerslug was removed. The damage to their heart can be healed as described above. Once the Con check is reduced to DC 1 or lower the host's heart is fully healed and the risk of a POWER! induced heart attack ends.
I'm tempted to put it all in Swim, since it's got a –5 Strength penalty it'd have +5 with 2 SPs. Hide is +14 with 2 SPs.
I'm more inclined to put the two SP in Move Silently than Hide and maybe give it a +8 racial bonus to MS? It has Hide +12 from stats & size alone. Maybe a racial bonus to Hide or when Hiding in its preferred terrain? Or both?
I'm leaning slightly towards Alertness over Stealthy.
So:
Skills: Hide +12, Listen +1, Move Silently +6, Spot +1, Swim +12
Feats: Alertness
Skills: Powerslugs have a +8 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. A powerslug has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. Powerslugs use either their Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for Swim checks, whichever is higher.
OR:
Skills #2: Hide +12* (+20 in jungles or swamps), Listen +1, Move Silently +6, Spot +1, Swim +12
Skills #3: Hide +16, Listen +1, Move Silently +6, Spot +1, Swim +12
Skills #4: Hide +16* (+20 in jungles or swamps), Listen +1, Move Silently +6, Spot +1, Swim +12
Skills: Powerslugs have a [+4 racial bonus on Hide checks checks #3 or #4] +8 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. A powerslug has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. Powerslugs use either their Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for Swim checks, whichever is higher.
[* Powerslugs have a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks in their native environment (jungle vegetation or swamp water). #2 or #4]
SPs: Hide 0SP–4Dex+16size, Listen 0SP–1Wis+1feat+0/4/8racial, Move Silently 2SP–4Dex+8racial, Spot 0SP–1Wis+1feat, Swim 2SP–5Str+8racial
Cleon
Hero
We still need to decide on its Challenge Rating and whether to give it blindsense, blindsight and/or tremorsense and, if so, how much.
Leeches and Slugs are the obvious creatures to use as a model.
Our beloved Creature Catalogue gives a Psionic Leech blindsight 10 ft. and a Giant Leech blindsight 30 ft.
Official stats for leeches don't give them blindsight, although the Giant Leech in Stormwrack was blindsight 10 ft.
The Giant Leech in Dungeon #82 has no special senses, but it does have something we could adapt:
Salt Vulnerability: A handful or more of salt deals 1d4+1 points of damage to the leech on contact and causes it to detach itself from its victim.
The Giant Slug in Dragon #355 only has darkvision. No blindsight, blindsense or tremorsense.
So how about:
Special Qualities: Amphibious, phasing, salt vulnerability, scent
Salt Vulnerability: A pinch of salt does 1 point of damage to a powerslug on contact and causes it to flee, a larger amount (enough to cover the creature) kills the powerslug.
Leeches and Slugs are the obvious creatures to use as a model.
Our beloved Creature Catalogue gives a Psionic Leech blindsight 10 ft. and a Giant Leech blindsight 30 ft.
Official stats for leeches don't give them blindsight, although the Giant Leech in Stormwrack was blindsight 10 ft.
The Giant Leech in Dungeon #82 has no special senses, but it does have something we could adapt:
Salt Vulnerability: A handful or more of salt deals 1d4+1 points of damage to the leech on contact and causes it to detach itself from its victim.
The Giant Slug in Dragon #355 only has darkvision. No blindsight, blindsense or tremorsense.
So how about:
Special Qualities: Amphibious, phasing, salt vulnerability, scent
Salt Vulnerability: A pinch of salt does 1 point of damage to a powerslug on contact and causes it to flee, a larger amount (enough to cover the creature) kills the powerslug.
Cleon
Hero
They're solitary, so wouldn't be encountered in groups, so there's little need for a collective noun.
But for the sake of argument, how about an escalation of power slugs, or perhaps a boost, clout or augmentation?
Or simply a power of slugs!
Cleon
Hero
Dang it, it's so obvious once someone else suggests it!
I'm tempted to add a larger group just to use the pun:
Organization: Solitary or wattage (2-5)
Updating Powerslug Working Draft.
I was tempted to give them blindsense 10 ft. so could add that in if you like. It doesn't really make much difference.
Apart from that, it's just the Challenge Rating, which I guess is pretty negligible as they're incapable of directly causing damage (maybe 1/10th like a Bat?).
A creature that's got a powerslug infestation would have a CR boost presumably. How much is +8 Str, +8 Con, +8 Dex worth? +1 Challenge Rating maybe, since it's accompanied by the risk of them dropping dead from a heart attack? They're maybe on the verge of +2 CR.
Or perhaps +1 CR if they are at "half-POWER" (two or three +4 ability bonuses from POWER!), +2 CR for "full-POWER" (one or more +8 ability bonuses from POWER!).
Cleon
Hero
Come to think of it, weren't we going to do a "mini-template" for a creature fully infested by a power slug? Maybe call it a Powered Creature?
Cleon
Hero
Well, firstly chocolate golems have "Organization: Solitary" like the 2E original so there's no need for a collective noun, and secondly using Wonka might not be agreeable to the estate of Roald Dahl!
There already is a timer effect, or rather two timer effects. A wait of 1d4+1 rounds between each saving throw, and then it takes 4d4 rounds for the heart attack to kill them.
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