Converting monsters from Dungeon Magazine

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BOZ said:
Well, it does say they are “non corporeal”, but there is definitely the hint that they seem to be semi-solid. ;) we can either make it simple and go fully incorporeal with them, or give them the ability to turn corporeal at times, or give them some sort of SQ that makes them semi-corporeal.
Semi-corporeal seems like a good idea.
 

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Semi-corporeal...interesting. Any precedents?

The closest thing I can think of at the moment is the ghost's malevolence power.
 

BOZ said:
Well, it does say they are “non corporeal”, but there is definitely the hint that they seem to be semi-solid. ;) we can either make it simple and go fully incorporeal with them, or give them the ability to turn corporeal at times, or give them some sort of SQ that makes them semi-corporeal.
They are also a spirit. I think we had this discussion with the Gray Philosopher - amongst others ;)

I would prefer them to be incorporeal and maybe have to 'manifest' to attack physically.

Semi corporeal is an interesting idea, however. An incorporeal creature can be damaged 50% of the time with a magic weapon. Maybe a semi corporeal creature can be damaged 50% of the with ANY weapon or 75% of the time with a magic weapon?

Regards
Mortis
 

Let's pick apart the incorporeal subtype and see what might change in a "semicorporeal" state...

Incorporeal Subtype: Some creatures are incorporeal by nature, while others (such as those that become ghosts) can acquire the incorporeal subtype. An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells, including touch spells, or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Nondamaging spell effects affect incorporeal creatures normally unless they require corporeal targets to function (such as implosion) or they create a corporeal effect that incorporeal creatures would normally be unaffected by (such as a web or wall of stone spell). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature.

As discussed upthread, perhaps 25% miss chance vs. magical attacks and weapons, and 50% vs. mundane?

An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Nonmagical attacks made by an incorporeal creature with a melee weapon have no effect on corporeal targets, and any melee attack an incorporeal creature makes with a magic weapon against a corporeal target has a 50% miss chance, except for attacks it makes with a ghost touch weapon, while are made normally (no miss chance).

Once again, reduce its own miss chance to 25%?

Any equipment worn or carried by an incorporeal creature is also incorporeal as long as it remains in the creature's possession. An object that the creature relinquishes loses its incorporeal quality (and the creature loses the ability to manipulate the object). If an incorporeal creature uses a thrown weapon or a ranged weapon, the projectile becomes corporeal as soon as it is fired and can affect a corporeal target normally (no miss chance). Magic items possessed by an incorporeal creature work normally with respect to their effects on the creature or on another target. Similarly, spells cast by an incorporeal creature affect corporeal creatures normally.

Nothing needs to change here, eh?

An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature's Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).

Perhaps a bonus equal to half its Cha modifier, and it can benefit from natural armor?

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

Maybe use the rules for squeezing when it attempts to pass through a solid object?

Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.

Stick with all this, or maybe treat them as smaller creatures when grappling?

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn't wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.

What about this? A bonus on Move Silently checks? Allow a Str score?
 

Shade said:
As discussed upthread, perhaps 25% miss chance vs. magical attacks and weapons, and 50% vs. mundane?
Looks good.
Once again, reduce its own miss chance to 25%?
Naturally :)
Nothing needs to change here, eh?
Other than 'incorpreal' to 'semicorporeal' - no. ;)
Perhaps a bonus equal to half its Cha modifier
Sounds about right.
and it can benefit from natural armor?
Yes but reduced. If we were talking about a template, I would recommend half the natural armor of the base creature, but as we're talking about a subtype...
Maybe use the rules for squeezing when it attempts to pass through a solid object?
That should work.
Stick with all this, or maybe treat them as smaller creatures when grappling?
Not sure... I can't see them being very effective at grappling but then again they are going to be difficult opponents TO grapple. Maybe a penalty for trying any 'offensive' grappling actions but a bonus to prevent from being grappled or escaping a grapple?
A bonus on Move Silently checks? Allow a Str score?
Yes to both :)

Regards
Mortis
 

I'd like to avoid creating a new subtype, but we could make in incorporeal and give it a special quality like so:

Semicorporeal (Ex): Although the reviler has the incorporeal subtype, it is slightly corporeal at times. As a result, the chance to avoid damage from a corporeal source is only 25% (rather than the usual 50%), and it can be hit by nonmagical weapons, but has a 50% chance to ignore such attacks. When attacking a corporeal target with a magical weapon, the reviler suffers only a 25% miss chance, and can strike with nonmagical weapons with a 50% miss chance. As a semicorporeal creature, a reviler may possess a natural armor bonus, but its deflection bonus is only equal to half its Charisma bonus. A reviler possesses a Strength score, and applies its Strength modifier to melee attack rolls. A reviler can pass through solid objects as incorporeal creatures do, but counts each square as if it were 2 squares, and while passing through a solid object takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC. A semicorporeal creature does not always move completely silently, but does gain a +8 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
 

So any further thoughts?

The semi-corporeal quality looks good to me, anyone else?

Some basic stats

Reviler
Medium Undead (Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 4d12 (26 hp)
Initiative: +x
Speed: Fly X ft. (X squares) (perfect)
Armor Class: x (+x Dex, +x natural ,+x deflection), touch x, flat-footed x
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+x
Attack: Claw +x melee (x+x)
Full Attack: 2 claws +x melee (x+x)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Corrupt liquid, darkvision 60 ft., incorporeal traits, semicorporeal, spell-like abilities, undead traits
Saves: Fort +x, Ref +x, Will +x
Abilities: Str x, Dex x, Con x, Int x, Wis x, Cha x
Skills: X
Feats: X
Environment: X
Organization: X
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: X
Alignment: X
Advancement: X
Level Adjustment: -

Regards
Mortis
 
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Shade said:
Revilers are undead spirits similar to haunts.
Haunt stats (3.0): Str —, Dex 15, Con —, Int —, Wis 14, Cha 14

Something similar?
Str X, Dex 13-16, Con -, Int 12-14, Wis 12-16, Cha 13-18

How strong should a semi-corporeal being be?

They can also corrupt good or neutral victims by poisoning their minds. By giving up both wounding attacks...
Enough of an excuse to give the claws the 'wounding' property? ;)

Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day - arcane lock, detect good, detect magic, telekinesis, 1/day - animate object, major image, suggestion, stone shape. Caster level 10th.

What would be closest to spectral force?
<edit>Never mind here's a link, thanks to Shade's link in another thread about another spell!!!
so spectral force = major image.

Revilers have the ability to create poison twice/day. Any liquid within 10 feet may be transformed into poison of Type I.
Corrupt Liquid (Su): ... A specific posion or a generic one.

Regards
Mortis
 
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Added to Homebrews.

Mortis said:
Haunt stats (3.0): Str —, Dex 15, Con —, Int —, Wis 14, Cha 14

Something similar?
Str X, Dex 13-16, Con -, Int 12-14, Wis 12-16, Cha 13-18

That sounds like a good place to start.

Mortis said:
How strong should a semi-corporeal being be?

Maybe like the semi-corporeal belker (Str 14)?

Mortis said:
Enough of an excuse to give the claws the 'wounding' property? ;)

I don't see why not. ;)

Mortis said:
Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day - arcane lock, detect good, detect magic, telekinesis, 1/day - animate object, major image, suggestion, stone shape. Caster level 10th.

Looks good. I added save DC placeholders in Homebrews.

Mortis said:
Corrupt Liquid (Su): ... A specific posion or a generic one.

Hmmm...will need to see what Type I poison did back in the day.
 


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