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Converting monsters from Imagine Magazine
- Thread starter Shade
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Big Mac
Explorer
freyar said:
I did also point out that plants can be turned:
Plant Domain from the SRD said:
If you check out all the domain granted powers, they include six that replicate or alter the cleric's turning abilities: Air turns earth creatures, Earth turns air creatures, Fire turns water creatures and Water turns fire creatures. Sun does a "greater turning" instead of a normal one and Plant rebukes plant creatures (like an evil cleric rebuking undead).
So it might be worth working out if this spirit is supposed to be the spirit of a tree. Druids can't turn anything in 3rd edition*, but clerics with the plant domain can rebuke plant creatures. This creature could be a nature cleric's big chance to show off their granted power.
So I'd say either undead or plant (or maybe both). None of these options are perfect, but each one retains the chance for this creature to get turned. An undead fey would give the biggest chance for the creature to get turned as the plant domain is not universal. (But none of the options helps a druid.)
* = Maybe it would be better if they could turn plant creatures, but they can't. That is something Pathfinder RPG might change.
One of the things that is confusing is that the description says: "If turned, it will return to the object/tree to which it is bound." Now if it only said tree, it could be a dryad-like creature. On the other hand if it said the tree was dead, or the object was cut from a dryad's tree, it could be an undead dryad who's tree was killed.
It would have been helpful if the creature was accompanied with a spell that bound a spirit into a tree (or wooden object). Then we could have a druid/cleric of nature summon the spirit as a guardian.
This monster feels like a punchline looking for a joke.
I think we might need to guess. Anybody got a coin?
GrayLinnorm
Explorer
I think the creature sounds like a fey to me (aren't dryads, which are fey, supposed to be tree spirits?). Why don't we just say that a druid can turn it like an undead and just use the standard mechanics for the turn attempt? We can also say that clerics with the Plant domain can rebuke it as a plant.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Well, as I said, I think I like fey, but undead (augmented fey) is probably the consensus. In that case, I'd just give it an SQ called "Turning Vulnerability" or something such that druid levels count as cleric levels for turning them and that clerics with the ability to turn plants get a +2 bonus to their level for turning checks?
IMO, this would be a weird plant, along the lines of the phantom fungus.
IMO, this would be a weird plant, along the lines of the phantom fungus.
GrayLinnorm
Explorer
The augmented subtype only works for templated creatures. I have never seen a base creature with it. And I think the turning vulnerability is because of the druid's power over nature rather than it being undead (regular clerics can't turn it).
Big Mac
Explorer
Hmmmm. Something has been bugging me about this creature since the begining. I've tried to argue a way to make this creature work, but I'm not happy with it. I think I finally realised why.
I'm starting to think the turning thing is a bit of a dead end. Druids don't normally have turning power - right.
So a player of a druid PC is never going to think of trying to turn one of these creatures. So what is the point of a creature that can be turned by druids?
All that means the GM is going to have to drop some sort of "why don't you try to turn it like a cleric" hint. Which of course could come across as the GM telling the players the answer.
I think what we actually need is something that works in a similar way to a turning attempt, but something that isn't called turning.
Turning is when a cleric repells undead creatures (or other creatures if they have the right domain). So how about a SQ that makes these creatures somehow get repelled by druids. And how about making it semi-automatic. That would mean the GM wouldn't need to drop hints.
The original text says: "Birch tree spirits are bound into the service of druids or magic users specialising in plantcraft by either a hold plant or charm plant spell." So how about using that to give these creatures a massive fear of druids and magic users specialising in plantcraft (which would be druids, rangers and clerics with the plant domain in 3rd edition terms).
How about calling the SQ "Hierophobia"?
The Yau-Mor (from the Converting Al-Qadim and Oriental Adventures creatures thread. Seem to have the opposite attitude to fear. Here is the text:
"In particular, yau-mor hate spellcasters, and will always seek to attack them when possible. They are not too swift on the uptake, however, and will not attack mages and priests until those individuals do something to call attention to themselves. After one has selected a spellcaster as a target, it will not attack others until the original target is dead."
I think that text could be inspiration for a Hierophbia quality:
I haven't got to the specifics of what happens when the go back into their tree, but that could follow along from the original text and this would then be fairly true to the original intention. (I'm guessing it would be similar to what happens to a dryad who hid in their tree.)
But if we did make this switch, it would allow us forget about this creature being an undead to do what freyar wanted to do from the start - make it a fey creature.
I'm starting to think the turning thing is a bit of a dead end. Druids don't normally have turning power - right.
So a player of a druid PC is never going to think of trying to turn one of these creatures. So what is the point of a creature that can be turned by druids?
All that means the GM is going to have to drop some sort of "why don't you try to turn it like a cleric" hint. Which of course could come across as the GM telling the players the answer.
I think what we actually need is something that works in a similar way to a turning attempt, but something that isn't called turning.
Turning is when a cleric repells undead creatures (or other creatures if they have the right domain). So how about a SQ that makes these creatures somehow get repelled by druids. And how about making it semi-automatic. That would mean the GM wouldn't need to drop hints.
The original text says: "Birch tree spirits are bound into the service of druids or magic users specialising in plantcraft by either a hold plant or charm plant spell." So how about using that to give these creatures a massive fear of druids and magic users specialising in plantcraft (which would be druids, rangers and clerics with the plant domain in 3rd edition terms).
How about calling the SQ "Hierophobia"?
The Yau-Mor (from the Converting Al-Qadim and Oriental Adventures creatures thread. Seem to have the opposite attitude to fear. Here is the text:
"In particular, yau-mor hate spellcasters, and will always seek to attack them when possible. They are not too swift on the uptake, however, and will not attack mages and priests until those individuals do something to call attention to themselves. After one has selected a spellcaster as a target, it will not attack others until the original target is dead."
I think that text could be inspiration for a Hierophbia quality:
Hierophobia (Ex):
As part of ritual that summons a birch tree spirit and binds it into its tree, it is infused with an unnatural fear of anyone who can wield natural magic. Birch tree sprits fear druids, rangers and clerics with the plant domain. However, they have no special ability to detect natural magic and only show their fear when a spellcaster does something that draws attention to their ability. After a birch tree spirit becomes aware of a spellcaster who can cast druid, ranger or plant spells they immediately retreat into their tree and...X
As part of ritual that summons a birch tree spirit and binds it into its tree, it is infused with an unnatural fear of anyone who can wield natural magic. Birch tree sprits fear druids, rangers and clerics with the plant domain. However, they have no special ability to detect natural magic and only show their fear when a spellcaster does something that draws attention to their ability. After a birch tree spirit becomes aware of a spellcaster who can cast druid, ranger or plant spells they immediately retreat into their tree and...X
I haven't got to the specifics of what happens when the go back into their tree, but that could follow along from the original text and this would then be fairly true to the original intention. (I'm guessing it would be similar to what happens to a dryad who hid in their tree.)
But if we did make this switch, it would allow us forget about this creature being an undead to do what freyar wanted to do from the start - make it a fey creature.
Shade
Monster Junkie
I'm sold on fey and fine with some sort of fear of druids.
Do we want it to be incorporeal, or something like the nishruu or phiuhl?
Gaseous Form (Ex): Since its body is composed of mist, a nishruu can pass through small holes or narrow openings. It also has damage reduction 10/magic and immunity to poison and is not subject to extra damage from critical hits. Though a nishruu is vulnerable to cold- and fire-based attacks, such effects cannot form inside its gaseous body.
Gaseous Form (Ex): A phiuhl's insubstantial form grants it immunity to critical hits. A phiuhl cannot run, but it can fly (slowly), and it is subject to winds. It cannot wear armor, manipulate solid objects, or enter water or other liquids. It can pass through small holes or narrow openings--even mere cracks. It also can occupy squares occupied by enemies (see Dessicate, above).
Do we want it to be incorporeal, or something like the nishruu or phiuhl?
Gaseous Form (Ex): Since its body is composed of mist, a nishruu can pass through small holes or narrow openings. It also has damage reduction 10/magic and immunity to poison and is not subject to extra damage from critical hits. Though a nishruu is vulnerable to cold- and fire-based attacks, such effects cannot form inside its gaseous body.
Gaseous Form (Ex): A phiuhl's insubstantial form grants it immunity to critical hits. A phiuhl cannot run, but it can fly (slowly), and it is subject to winds. It cannot wear armor, manipulate solid objects, or enter water or other liquids. It can pass through small holes or narrow openings--even mere cracks. It also can occupy squares occupied by enemies (see Dessicate, above).
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I think I prefer the gaseous form version. DR X/magic or silver? Normally I'd suggest DR 5 for this many HD, but with the 2 ways to bypass, I could see DR 10. With spell immunity, which is what it gets in the original text, it might also be a slightly higher CR as well.
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