Converting Monsters from Polyhedron Magazine

[Cleon]

Okay, I realize there are a couple of minor gaffs in my Plantman stats in post #711. I didn't give it extra reach for the longspear, and there are a few minor typos here and there.

Upon reflection, I think the 'rank and file' Plantmen will just have spears, and only the bodyguards and higher ranks will usually have longspears plus a bunch of standard spears for backup and throwing weapons.

Now I'll put the two different versions aside for a moment and talk about Special Abilities. We've got three to work out - Fear Fire, Water Dependency and the chief's Spore attack.

Now Shade suggested a variation of the sahuagin's Water Dependent ability.

Water Dependent: Sahuagin can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules)

That seems a bit harsh to me, since the original monster just loses 2 Con every 12 hours. I think it would be easier just tweaking the original text.

Plantmen can suffer from dehydration when adventuring outside of very moist, swampy areas. They must wet themselves twice a day or lose two Constitution points per missed bath. Lost Constitution points are regained at the rate of two points per bath. A waterskin provides enough water for a single wetting.

How about:

Water Dependency (Ex): Plantmen can suffer from dehydration outside of very moist, swampy areas. They must wet themselves twice a day or start taking 2 Constitution damage for every twelve hours they miss a wetting. In particularly arid conditions, they may dehydrate two or even three times faster, taking damage every 6 or 4 hours. A plantman can regain Constitution points lost from dehydration by wetting itself, regaining 2 points per bath. A standard jug or waterskin provides enough water to give a Medium sized plantman a single wetting (1 gallon), a Large plantman needs twice as much (2 gallons).

Note that plantmen do not need to drink water, these wettings are enough to satisfy their thirst.
​

Now what about Fear Fire? Shade suggested a Will save versus DC=damage dealt, but I that would mean that 1 HD plantmen will not be running away very often (since they only average about 4 hp the highest DC of Fear Fire they face will be 3, any higher and they won't be able to run away!), while high HD plantmen may be running away too often, since they have poor Will Saves. (i.e. a 10 HD plantman will have about 65 hit points and a +3 will save, so it has a 50% chance of fleeing when it suffers 14 points of damage.)

Maybe make it a fixed DC? Or equal to the DC of any fire spell that hits them? Or maybe even both? Although making it 10+1 per X points of fire damage could be better, something like:

Fear Fire: Plantmen have an instinctive terror of flame, if a Plantman suffers any damage from a fire attack they must make a Will save against a DC of 10 plus 1 for every five points of fire damage.
​

Let's see how that works out:

1-4 fire damage, Fear DC10, 1-HD sap saves 55%, 10-HD chief saves 70%.
5-9 fire damage, Fear DC11, 1-HD saves 50%, 10-HD saves 65%.
10-14 fire damage, Fear DC12, 1-HD saves 45%, 10-HD saves 60%.
15-19 fire damage, Fear DC 13, 1-HD saves 40%, 10-HD saves 55%.
20-24 fire damage, Fear DC 14, 1-HD flees 35%, 10-HD flees 50%.

That looks about right to me. I'm thinking the tougher specimens are likely to get Iron Will to help overcome their terror.

That leaves a chief's Spores attack.

Chiefs can also attack with spores; victims must make a saving throw vs. poison or be paralyzed, dying in 5d4 minutes unless treated by a cure disease spell. Victims who die in this manner are reborn 1d4+20 hours later as plantmen with 6 HD. These individuals become the chief's bodyguards.

Hmmm, there's no mention of how the chief delivers its spores - with a melee claw attack? scattering a cloud with a radius X? grappling a helpless foe and sticking tendrils in them? Nor does it say what kind of creatures its spores affect. Do they only transform Humanoids?

I'd like to limit the spore attack to a few times per day or week, maybe just once, so a high-level 'PC Plantman' can't quickly form a huge army of loyal bodyguards.

As for the mechanics, it reminds me a bit of a ghoul's special attacks:

Ghoul Fever (Su): Disease—bite, Fortitude DC 12, incubation period 1 day, damage 1d3 Con and 1d3 Dex. The save DC is Charisma-based.

An afflicted humanoid who dies of ghoul fever rises as a ghoul at the next midnight. A humanoid who becomes a ghoul in this way retains none of the abilities it possessed in life. It is not under the control of any other ghouls, but it hungers for the flesh of the living and behaves like a normal ghoul in all respects. A humanoid of 4 Hit Dice or more rises as a ghast, not a ghoul.

Paralysis (Ex): Those hit by a ghoul’s bite or claw attack must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds. Elves have immunity to this paralysis. The save DC is Charisma-based.

So how do you think we should handle this?

 

[Cleon]

How's this? I based it off heat dangers, rather than drowning like the sahuagin.

Dampness Dependent (Ex): Plantmen must keep their bodies wet or become easily dehydrated. Plantmen can survive in dry environments for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution. After that, it must make a Fortitude saving throw each hour (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Plantmen reduced to unconsciousness begin taking lethal damage (1d4 points per hour). An application of 1 gallon of water is sufficient to re-wet the plantman's body.

Yes, I thought about basing it off the SRD heat dangers / thirst rules rather than follow the Con loss model of the original, it has the advantage that the tougher plantmen will last longer.

The basic approach looks right, but I'd be tempted to change the time periods a bit. The original version an average plantman would take ~5 days to die from dehydration, (assuming Con 10, losing 2 per twelve hours). This version a 1HD plantman is unlikely to last a day. (assuming Con 10 it will start suffering dehydration after 5 hours and will die after failing six Fort checks (it'll usually take six 1d4 damage rollsfrom 4 hp to -10 hit points). Also, does the re-wetting just stop it losing HP, or does it allow it to regain HP like in the original?

EDIT: Another point is it requires a lot of DC checks, which can get tedious with a high-HP plantman. I know this is following the lead of the SRD, but if you have say a 40 hp plant man it would, on average take twenty Fort save failures to die. That's an awful lot of die-rolling.

How's this?

Fear of Flames (Ex): A plantman that suffers fire damage from an attack must succeed on a Will save (DC = damage dealt) or become panicked for 1d6 rounds.

As I mentioned in my previous post, this would mean that a low HD plantman will almost never flee if its burned. e.g. a 1HD plantman has ~4 hps it can only take 1-3 fire damage without going unconscious, and it isn't likely to fail a DC 1-3 Will save.

 

[Cleon]

Have we decided on alignment yet? The creature catalogue version of the vegepygmy is "Always Neutral" but upon reflection I agree with Shade that "Usually Neutral" is better, since prime-material sapients are very rarely of one fixed alignment in 3rd edition.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and here's a first stab at the Chief's spores ability, based off the creature catalogue writeup of the Russet Mold:

Spores (Ex): Once per day, a plantman chief can release a cloud of spores in a 10-foot radius cloud. The spores do no harm to creatures of the Construct, Elemental, Outsider, Plant or Undead types, or creatures that possess immunity to disease. All others in the area must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or take 1d6 points of Constitution damage and be paralysed for 1d10 minutes. Another Fortitude save (DC 17) is required 10 minute later — even by those who succeeded at the first save — to avoid taking 3d6 points of Constitution damage.

Any fey, giant, humanoid or monstrous humanoid of Small size or larger that is killed by these spores will rise as a plantman 1d4+20 hours later. A Small-sized victim will become a 1-4HD plantman and a Medium or larger victim will become a 5-6 HD plantman.

A diminish plant or remove disease spell will delay the spores' Con damage and transformation for one hour per caster level, but does not prevent it, the spores will just take longer to turn the victim into a plantman. The spells blight, heal, limited wish or wish and miracle or the psionic power bend reality can completely remove the spores' contagion.

The save DC is constitution dependent.
​

Save DC is based on a 10 HD chief with Con 15.

Hmm, I like the basic structure but would prefer it to run more like a disease than a poison. I'll mull it over for a bit...

Okay, how about this for alternative take?

Once per day, a plantman chief can release a cloud of spores in a 10-foot radius cloud. The spores do no harm to creatures of the Construct, Elemental, Outsider, Plant or Undead types, or creatures that possess immunity to disease. All others in the area must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or be paralysed for 1d10 minutes, during which they take 1 points of Constitution damage per minute. Another Fortitude save (DC 17) is required every time the duration expires — even by those who succeeded at the previous save — to avoid taking another 1d10 minutes of paralysis during which they suffer 1 Con damage per minute. The victim must succeed in two consecutive saving throws to completely shake off the spores' infection.

Any fey, giant, humanoid or monstrous humanoid of Small size or larger that is killed by these spores will rise as a plantman 1d4+20 hours later. A Small-sized victim will become a 1-4HD plantman and a Medium or larger victim will become a 5-6 HD plantman.

A diminish plant or remove disease spell will delay the spores' Con damage and transformation for one hour per caster level, but does not prevent it, the spores will just take longer to turn the victim into a plantman. The spells blight, heal, limited wish or wish and miracle or the psionic power bend reality can completely remove the spores' contagion.

The save DC is constitution dependent.
​

 

[freyar]

I think I like an even higher DC for Fear of Fire. 10 + 1/2 points of damage or more even.

Cleon, I think a Con 10 plantfolk losing 2 points every 12 hours dies in 2.5 days, actually. I'm not quite sure what I think about the dehydration. I kind of prefer following the heat damage, but perhaps the hp lost should be greater since they're worse off in the heat than others.

I think the spores are looking ok. Not sure if I prefer the "disease" or "poison" version.

 

[Cleon]

I think I like an even higher DC for Fear of Fire. 10 +1/2 points of damage or more even.

Maybe, but I don't want it to be so high even a mighty plantman hero will usually flee in terror if you stick a candle in him. The largest plantmen will have Will saves about +5-6 (9-12HD poor save, probably Iron Will), the weakest about +0 (1HD poor save). Maybe we should work out a 'flee percentage' and try to reverse engineer the DC. So what chance do we want for it to flee when struck by a candle, torch, flaming sphere or fireball?

What about DC 5+1/2hp, that works out as follows:

Candle (1pt fire damage*) - Chief ignores? Sapling 20%? -> DC=5?
Torch (4 points damage*) Chief 10%? Sapling 35%? -> DC=7?
Flaming Sphere/Oil (10 points*) Chief 25%? Sapling 50%? -> DC=10?
5-dice Fireball (25 points*) Chief 60%? Sapling 85%? -> DC=17?

*damage includes the +50% for plantmen's Vulnerability to Fire. Chief +5 Will save, sapling +0 Will save.

Those percentages look about right to me.

Cleon, I think a Con 10 plantfolk losing 2 points every 12 hours dies in 2.5 days, actually. I'm not quite sure what I think about the dehydration. I kind of prefer following the heat damage, but perhaps the hp lost should be greater since they're worse off in the heat than others.

Oops, I miscalculated for a once-a-day Con loss rather than twice-a-day.

Actually, it would be 3 days, since it takes 12 hours for them to start to dehydrate, and they'd lose 2 Con after the end of the next 12 hours, thus 2 Con damage at the end of the first day and 4 Con damage for each subsequent day (in two 12-hour installments).

I think the spores are looking ok. Not sure if I prefer the "disease" or "poison" version.

Yes, I'm divided as well, but am leaning toward the disease version since the russet mold is a living thing growing through and transforming the victim rather than a toxin.

EDIT: Oh, I was thinking about adding a note that immunity to or removal of the paralysis does not affect the Con damage. I also wondered about separate saves for the paralysis and the damage, but that seemed to fiddly to me.

 

[freyar]

DC 5+1/2 damage seems pretty good if Shade also agrees.

Let's hold off on decisions about dehydration till Shade's back, too.

 

[Cleon]

DC 5+1/2 damage seems pretty good if Shade also agrees.

Let's hold off on decisions about dehydration till Shade's back, too.

Sounds good to me, I think I'll swipe it as is for my version. I'll hold off posting it until Shade's finished his, so as not to unduly influence him. (As is my usual won't I'm going a bit overboard, I'm mostly through writing up a Savage Species progression and a new spellcasting class for them, plus a sample bodyguard, subchief, chief and two classed Plantmen characters.)

Getting back to the spores attack, I was wondering about adding a bit about a Heal check to cure it. I'm also tempted to slow the progress down a bit, killing them in ten minutes is mighty fast. Maybe make the duration in hours and a low dice Con damage? Here's a revised version, it includes a bit about the new plantmen being friendly towards their sporedaddy:

Spores (Ex): Once per day, a plantman chief can release a cloud of spores in a 10-foot radius cloud. The spores do no harm to creatures of the Construct, Elemental, Outsider, Plant or Undead types, or creatures that possess immunity to disease. All others in the area must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 17) or be paralysed for [X time], during which they take [Y] points of Constitution damage per [Z time]. Another Fortitude save (DC 17) is required every time the duration expires — even by those who succeeded at the previous save — to avoid taking another [X time] of paralysis, during which they suffer [Y] Con damage per [Z time]. The victim must succeed in two consecutive saving throws to completely shake off the spores' infection.

Any fey, giant, humanoid or monstrous humanoid of Small size or larger that is killed by these spores will rise as a plantman 1d4+20 hours later. A Small-sized victim will become a 1-4HD plantman and a Medium or larger victim will become a 5-6 HD plantman. These plantmen have no memory of their former lives, and begin their new life with a friendly attitude towards the chief who created them.

Constitution damage caused by the spores cannot be healed until the spores' contagion is removed. The spells blight, heal, limited wish or wish and miracle or the psionic power bend reality can completely remove the spores' contagion, as does a DC27 Heal check (DC22 when combined with diminish plant or remove disease). A DC17 Heal check will prevent one hour of paralysis and Con loss, while a diminish plant or remove disease spell will delay the victim's Con damage, or their revival as a plantman, for one hour per caster level. This only delays the progress of the spores, it does not cure the victim. A remove paralysis spell will allow the victim to function normally for one hour, but it does not delay the Con damage or transformation.

The save DC and Heal checks are Constitution dependent.
​

(X=1d3 hours, Y=1d4, Z=hour) for 1d3 hours of paralysis with 1d4 Con damage per hour for every failed Fort save?

 

[Shade]

Wow...lots to digest.

For fear fire, I think DC=10+damage dealt probably works fine, although normal save DC for a spell of that level would also work. I'm not a fan of the nonstandard (imagine that!) 5 + 1/2 damage dealt.

For dehydration, I'd prefer nonlethal damage to Con damage. Basing it off horrid wilting makes sense, too, since it deals extra damage to plants...

"This spell evaporates moisture from the body of each subject living creature, dealing 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). This spell is especially devastating to water elementals and plant creatures, which instead take 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d8)."

Maybe follow the heat dangers, but have them take 1d8 points of lethal damage rather than the usual nonlethal damage?

 

[freyar]

How about normal save DC if the damage is from a spell and a fixed DC for mundane fire damage (or 10+damage)?

I like 1d8 lethal as horrid wilting.