Converting Monsters from Polyhedron Magazine

[Cleon]

Extend the stench radius to 30 feet and increase the duration?

Double the paralysis duration?

Increasing the radius is OK.

I'd like to make it 2d6+4 minutes for the stench and 2d4 rounds for the paralysis.

Liches have a +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks
Vampires have a +8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks
Follow that trend and give the ghast lord the same bonuses as the lich?

I don't think they should be much better than a Vampire Spawn (+4 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot).

How about splitting the difference and giving them a +6 racial bonus, but in the SRD ghast's skills of Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot?

Ghastly Creature: Str +2, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6
Vampire: Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4
Vampire Lord: As vampire, plus Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4

So maybe Str +6, Dex +8, Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +6? I don't really think they should be stronger than a vampire or smarter than a lich.

The SRD Ghast's modifiers are Str +6, Dex +6, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6 which is already pretty good. We could just give them that, although I'd be tempted to boost the Strength to +8.

Add some DR? Since vamps have /silver, maybe /cold iron?

Boost turn resistance to +4?

I'd leave them without DR, but increase the turn resistance to +4.

 

[freyar]

Well, I think I'd prefer something a bit better than a ghast. But we're not talking exactly about racial modifiers from average, we're talking about modifiers from NPC.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I think I'd prefer something a bit better than a ghast. But we're not talking exactly about racial modifiers from average, we're talking about modifiers from NPC.

I think a ghast's racial modifiers are plenty good enough, since the Ghast-Lord will presumably have the elite array and probably a few ability points for being high level.

 

[freyar]

Ok, fair enough. The dread ghast doesn't actually get anything better.

Do we want to add a command ghasts/ghouls ability or rebuke undead or just assume they'll have cleric levels?

 

[Shade]

BTW, is ghastly creature from Libris Mortis? We could also get inspiration from the dread ghast template in the Advanced Bestiary (which I will look up when I get home from my business trip today).

It's from Dragon Magazine # 307 and later, Dragon Compendium Volume One.

Libris Mortis has the Gravetouched Ghoul template.

Increasing the radius is OK.

I'd like to make it 2d6+4 minutes for the stench and 2d4 rounds for the paralysis.

That'll work. It's odd that the ghastly and ghoulish creature tempates boosted the paralysis duration so greatly.

How about splitting the difference and giving them a +6 racial bonus, but in the SRD ghast's skills of Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot?

That appeals.

The SRD Ghast's modifiers are Str +6, Dex +6, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6 which is already pretty good. We could just give them that, although I'd be tempted to boost the Strength to +8.

I think a ghast's racial modifiers are plenty good enough, since the Ghast-Lord will presumably have the elite array and probably a few ability points for being high level.

I'd like it to be a bit better. It's not meant to be a ghast template, but rather a greater version of it. Like the vampire lord and greater mummy, it should offer better ability score modifiers than the standard versions. I'd be satisifed with simply boosting the Dex and Wis a bit higher, since Dex is the best ability for ghouls (and tied w/Str for ghasts), and Wis helps the clerical spellcasting.

However, the gravetouched ghoul (which seems a bit more realistic compared to other undead templates), gives 'em Str +2, Dex +4, Wis +4, Cha +2. Based on that, I'd be content with

Thus, Str +4, Dex +6, Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +6, which essentially gives it lower Str but higher Wis than the straight ability score extrapolation above.

Ok, fair enough. The dread ghast doesn't actually get anything better.

Do we want to add a command ghasts/ghouls ability or rebuke undead or just assume they'll have cleric levels?

As currently written, we require "diving spellcasting", which means druids and some prestige classes that lack rebuke undead could qualify. Still, I'd be OK with leaving rebuke undead as baggage from the base creature, but I'm not opposed to granting some bonus (Extra Turning as a bonus feat, etc.).

 

[freyar]

Hmm, I even have DCv1.

I'm ok with all the proposed ability arrays at this point.

I don't know that I want to require rebuke undead, since adepts should certainly qualify. Maybe we can let them rebuke undead as a cleric of their HD, with uses per day stacking with any from cleric levels?

 

[Shade]

I don't know that I want to require rebuke undead, since adepts should certainly qualify. Maybe we can let them rebuke undead as a cleric of their HD, with uses per day stacking with any from cleric levels?

If we'd like them to be able to control other undead, I think this option works best. If we don't care, we can just leave the prereq as "able to cast xth-level divine spells", which will allow adepts, druids, and the like.

 

[Cleon]

I'd like it to be a bit better. It's not meant to be a ghast template, but rather a greater version of it. Like the vampire lord and greater mummy, it should offer better ability score modifiers than the standard versions. I'd be satisifed with simply boosting the Dex and Wis a bit higher, since Dex is the best ability for ghouls (and tied w/Str for ghasts), and Wis helps the clerical spellcasting.

However, the gravetouched ghoul (which seems a bit more realistic compared to other undead templates), gives 'em Str +2, Dex +4, Wis +4, Cha +2. Based on that, I'd be content with

Thus, Str +4, Dex +6, Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +6, which essentially gives it lower Str but higher Wis than the straight ability score extrapolation above.

I can live with than, and would be willing to increase the Str bonus one step:

Str +6, Dex +6, Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +6

As currently written, we require "diving spellcasting", which means druids and some prestige classes that lack rebuke undead could qualify. Still, I'd be OK with leaving rebuke undead as baggage from the base creature, but I'm not opposed to granting some bonus (Extra Turning as a bonus feat, etc.).

Upon reflection, I'm thinking we should consider allowing for other classes too. The sample Ghast-Lord may just happen to be a cleric. Something like any evil character of at least 4th level can become a Ghast-Lord.

Also, the sample Ghast-Lord is an 8HD monster but cast spells as a 4th level cleric (more or less). So I was thinking it could get bonus "undead HD" on top of its class level HD based on its size, with 4 HD for a Medium-sized Ghast-Lord.

 

[freyar]

Interesting point about HD. Ok, then, here's my proposal:

+4 "racial" undead HD with associated turning as a 4th level cleric (that stacks with any actual cleric levels)

There's precedent for templates adding HD, too; the Beast of Xvim from 3.0 Monsters of Faerun springs to mind.

 

[Shade]

Interesting point about HD. Ok, then, here's my proposal:

+4 "racial" undead HD with associated turning as a 4th level cleric (that stacks with any actual cleric levels)

There's precedent for templates adding HD, too; the Beast of Xvim from 3.0 Monsters of Faerun springs to mind.

While precedents do exist--down that road leads ruin. Trust me from experience on this one.

Still, if you guys both badly want to go down that road, I'll fasten my safety belt, close my eyes, and grit my teeth while awaiting our grisly demise.

EDIT: That path also doesn't fit in well with the other "undead lord" templates. Food for thought.