Converting monsters from Second Edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Shade]

So, I'm thinking that in 3E terms the Greater Sea Demon is just a standard Sea Demon that has been Advanced a size category? We can add a note they gain more tentacles as they grow.

My thoughts exactly.

The Lesser Sea Demon is basically just a tougher, amphibious, intelligent and spell-resistant Giant Squid with a whirlpool special attack - we can use the Water Elemental's Vortex special attack for that.

It's an octopus, not a squid, though.

Still, those ability scores might work.

 

[freyar]

Squid, octopus, what's the difference?

The giant octopus is not as good physically as the giant squid, which would argue for lower stats. OTOH, these sound pretty fearsome, so I like the tougher stats Cleon's proposed.

A little more basic: magical beast or outsider (maybe native)? I lean toward outsider, I think.

 

[Shade]

I was thinking magical beast. If it weren't for the Intelligence, I'd almost argue for animal.

 

[Cleon]

It's an octopus, not a squid, though.

Well a Vampyroteuthis is neither octopus nor squid, it has an Order of its Own (Vampyromorphida) although it's closer to the octopi than the squids (Teuthida).

EDIT: Hold on, what am I talking about? This is the Sea Demon thread, not the Vampire Squid thread!

Regardless, I think they need the tougher stats of the Squid/Kraken cross, since these things seem tough customers.

As for type, I'm voting Magical Beast like a Kraken. There's little to suggest the "Demon" is anything more than a reference to their nasty disposition, so I'm not seeing Outsider here.

 

[Cleon]

OK, here's a rough draft. It's basically a downsized kraken with a modified water elemental's Vortex attack bolted on:

Sea Demon
Huge Magical Beast (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 12d10+48 (114 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 10 ft., swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 20 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +10 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+28
Attack: Tentacle +18 melee (1d8+8)
Full Attack: 6 tentacles +18 melee (1d8+8) and bite +13 melee (3d6+4)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft. (30 ft. with tentacles)
Special Attacks: Constrict 1d8+8, crushing embrace, improved grab, vortex
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., ink cloud, jet, low-light vision, spell resistance CR+6?, water dependent
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +7
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 11
Skills: 30 Climb +16, Escape Artist +, Hide +, Listen +, Spot +, Survival + (+), Swim +16
Feats: 5
Environment: Warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Triple standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil? Always evil, usually chaotic?
Advancement: 13-15 HD (Huge); 16-36 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Combat
An opponent can attack a sea demon's tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A sea demon's tentacles have 10 hit points each (20 hit points for a Gargantuan sea demon). If a sea demon is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a sea demon's tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A sea demon usually withdraws from combat if it loses four tentacles. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1d10+10 days.

Constrict (Ex): A sea demon deals 1d8+8 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a sea demon must hit an opponent of any size with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Ink Cloud (Ex): A sea demon can emit a cloud of jet-black ink in a 60 foot spread (80 feet for a Gargantuan sea demon) once per minute as a free action. The cloud provides total concealment, which the sea demon normally uses to escape a losing fight. All vision within the cloud is obscured.

Jet (Ex): A sea demon can jet backward once per round as a full-round action, at a speed of 200 feet. It must move in a straight line, but does not provoke attacks of opportunity while jetting.

Vortex (Su): Once every 10 minutes, a sea demon can use its tentacles to stir the sea into a whirlpool. The sea demon must be underwater to create a vortex. It can sustain a vortex for up to 1 round for every 2 HD it has. The sea demon can move through the water or along the bottom at its swim speed while creating a vortex. The vortex is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 30 feet wide at the top, and up to 50 feet tall (60 feet for a Gargantuan sea demon). The sea demon controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet.

The sea demon's movement while it uses its vortex attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Another creature might be caught in the vortex if it touches or enters the vortex, or if the sea demon moves into or through the creature's space.

Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the sea demon might take damage when caught in the vortex, and may be swept up by it. An affected creature must succeed on a DC24 Reflex save when it comes into contact with the vortex or take 2d8 bludgeoning damage. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful currents, automatically taking damage each round. An affected creature is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the vortex. The creature still takes damage, but can leave if the save is successful. The save DC is Strength-based.

Creatures trapped in the vortex cannot move except to go where the sea demon carries them or to escape the whirlpool. Creatures caught in the whirlpool can otherwise act normally, but must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the vortex take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls. The sea demon can have only as many creatures trapped inside the vortex at one time as will fit inside the vortex's volume.

The sea demon can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them wherever the vortex happens to be.

If the vortex's base touches the bottom, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the sea demon and has a diameter equal to half the vortex's height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment.

Those caught in the cloud must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.

A sea demon cannot use any other attack while it is creating a vortex and does not threaten the area around it.

Water Dependent (Ex): Sea demons can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules).

Skills: A sea demon can change colors, giving it a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. A sea demon also can squeeze and contort its body, giving it a +10 racial bonus on Escape Artist checks. A sea demon has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. A sea demon also has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks, and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

 

[Cleon]

I think we should also do something with the following:

MCA4
Any ship seized by the sea demon comes to a stop in one turn. The creature will try to sink the ship, attacking whatever prey comes within tentacle reach. As long as six tentacles grasp the ship, the sea demon can reduce its seaworthiness by 2-8% per round (2d4). If four or more tentacles are severed (but no more than half the total number of tentacles), the sea demon retreats to 500 feet below the ship (or half the distance to the bottom in shallower water).

Dragon #48
Any ship seized by a Sea Demon will come to a full stop in one turn. The creature will then attempt to sink the ship, attacking whatever or whoever is aboard if the prey happens to get within reach of a tentacle.

As long as six tentacles can grasp the ship, the Sea Demon will damage the ship at the rate of 4 (3) structural points per melee round. If 5 (4) or more tentacles are severed (each tentacle will take 20 (16) hit points of damage over and above the Sea Demon’s regular hit points), the creature will retreat to 500 feet below the ship, or to halfway between the bottom and the keel if the sea is too shallow.

I fancy something like the following, based on a repurposed Ramming special attack.

There's a bit of inconsistency in the number of tentacles the sea demon needs for this attack in the original description - it starts out saying 6, but then says it can crush ships if it has lost half its tentacles.

Should we change the relevant passage to "A sea demon must use at least six tentacles" or "a sea demon must use more than half its tentacles (five or more for a Huge sea demon, six or more for a Gargantuan one)" ?

Crushing Embrace (Ex): As a standard action, a sea demon can wrap its limbs around a waterborne target (such as a ship or another creature) and squeeze with devastating pressure. This attack deals 2d8+12 points of damage if the sea demon makes a successful grapple check, and 1d8+8 damage if it fails. A sea demon must use at least half its tentacles (four for a typical sea demon) to make a crushing embrace, it can not use tentacles that are grappling other targets. The sea demon can maintain its hold on any other creature or object it is grappling, but can not use its constrict attack against other targets while making a crushing embrace.

If a ship is the target of a crushing embrace, the sea demon can make a Strength check to breach its hull, which causes the ship to sink in 1d10 minutes. The break DC varies with the type of vessel embraced, as follows: rowboat DC 20, keelboat DC 23, sailing ship or longship DC 25, warship DC 27, or galley DC 30. (See Chapter 5 of the DMG for information about ships). Regardless of the check result, every creature aboard must attempt a DC 15 Reflex saving throw. Success means the creature takes 1d6 points of damage from being thrown about by the impact; failure means the creature is hurled overboard.
​

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and what spell resistance are we giving them?

According to the guidelines Shade favours so, a Lesser Sea Demon's 15% Magic Resistance is CR+4, a Greater's 30% is CR+7.

Spell Resistance = Challenge Rating + 6 ?

EDIT: I've decided I like CR+6 so have red-pencilled it into my current draft.

 

[Cleon]

Sea demons can move around on land, and may even make their lairs their "if the climate is humid and either subtropical or tropical" and "they can also be found in the desert, with their lair below the water table".

That suggests either the Amphibious SQ or Water Dependent à la the Sahuagin.

The humidity preference leads me to prefer Water Dependent. I'll red-pencil that in as well.

 

[freyar]

I also prefer water dependent.

Since we decided that the greater is just an advanced version, I think we should stick to SR=CR+4 for the basic stats.

Did the 1e/2e kraken also have the ability to grab onto/smash ships? If not, I can see adding the crushing embrace, but I hesitate to add something a kraken can't do unless it's clear that was the original intent.

 

[Cleon]

I also prefer water dependent.

Since we decided that the greater is just an advanced version, I think we should stick to SR=CR+4 for the basic stats.

Did the 1e/2e kraken also have the ability to grab onto/smash ships? If not, I can see adding the crushing embrace, but I hesitate to add something a kraken can't do unless it's clear that was the original intent.

Both Kraken and Giant Squids could drag ships to the bottom in AD&D, here's the relevant bits from the 2E Monstrous Manual:

A giant squid can drag ships of small size to the bottom and can halt the movement of larger ones in one turn of dragging. After six or more tentacles have squeezed the hull of the ship for three consecutive rounds, the vessel suffers damage as if it had been rammed and it begins to take on water and sink.

Krakens can drag ships of 60 feet long down in the same way as normal giant squids attack.

Compared to the Sea Demon that's a similar number of tentacles in an attack that causes a hull breach and sinking, except with a fixed onset time of 3 rounds instead of a random roll.