Converting monsters from Second Edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Cleon]

Then, prereq of BAB +9 or 9th caster level it is.

Not sure about any ability bonus, since we're trying to gear this toward almost all classes. Maybe we should see what it needs for its special abilities.

Are you asking what ability bonuses (if any) the template should proffer, or whether the prereqs should require a particular ability score?

If the former, I'm thinking it should probably have a bonuses to most of its abilities, like the SRD Vampire's Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4. Maybe not exactly like the Vamp, although that's probably pretty close.

 

[Shade]

In that case, should we do the "menu" of special attacks first?

That sounds like a plan.

 

[Cleon]

That sounds like a plan.

Go on then!

 

[freyar]

Hmm, let's first note that they get a big attack and damage bonus against dragons --- maybe this should apply to spells cast against dragons too.

In any case, the original monster gets to choose 5 from the following options (I'm trying to translate to 3.5 quickly):
Disable breath weapon for a period
Check to get attack bonus (think lesser version of true strike or assassin's death attack)
Dazzle*
Dodge to AC, save bonus, attack bonus*
Double damage
Something like Power Attack (w/hp penalty maybe)*
Weapon throwing*
Prevent dragon from flying

Some of these (with *) seem like we could make them abilities of all undead dragon slayers, maybe as bonus feats. Weapon throwing just seems like usual improvised use of a weapon as a thrown weapon given attack penalties.

What seem like good ideas for caster special attacks?

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, let's first note that they get a big attack and damage bonus against dragons --- maybe this should apply to spells cast against dragons too.

Methinks we could recycle most of the Ranger's Favoured Enemy ability.

Adding a spell DC boost against Dragons suits me.

In any case, the original monster gets to choose 5 from the following options (I'm trying to translate to 3.5 quickly):

Disable breath weapon for a period
Check to get attack bonus (think lesser version of true strike or assassin's death attack)
Dazzle*
Dodge to AC, save bonus, attack bonus*
Double damage
Something like Power Attack (w/hp penalty maybe)*
Weapon throwing*
Prevent dragon from flying

Some of these (with *) seem like we could make them abilities of all undead dragon slayers, maybe as bonus feats. Weapon throwing just seems like usual improvised use of a weapon as a thrown weapon given attack penalties.

What seem like good ideas for caster special attacks?

That suits me. A few of the abilities are pretty minor and circumstantial (such as weapon throwing) compared to Disabling Breath Weapon strikes and the like.

 

[Shade]

Methinks we could recycle most of the Ranger's Favoured Enemy ability.

Adding a spell DC boost against Dragons suits me.

Both appeal. It also sounds like it magically imbues its weapon with the bane (dragons) property.

Disable breath weapon for a period

Su ability?

Check to get attack bonus (think lesser version of true strike or assassin's death attack)

Borrow this from dragonslayer prestige class?

True Strike (Sp): At 10th level, a dragonslayer may use true strike once per day as a move action.

Dazzle*

I suppose a Su special attack. I can find no feats that dazzle without magic.

Dodge to AC, save bonus, attack bonus*

This almost sounds like improved evasion (perhaps restricted to breath weapons?), Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat (like the dragonslayer prestige class), and the attack bonus could be simply rolled into favored enemy and/or bane.

Double damage

Ex special attack for double damage x/day, or maybe add level/HD like fiendish template or improved crit range vs. dragons?

Something like Power Attack (w/hp penalty maybe)*

I believe I've seen a similar power...

Weapon throwing*

It sounds a bit like the Throw Anything and Power Throw feats.

Prevent dragon from flying

Might be able to borrow from wingbind spell.

 

[Cleon]

Both appeal. It also sounds like it magically imbues its weapon with the bane (dragons) property.

I'm tempted to give them both "Anti-Dragon Weapon Enchantments" and Favoured Enemy vs Dragons.

Su ability?

If I remember the flavour text for this rightly it looks much more like an (Ex) special attack.

Borrow this from dragonslayer prestige class?

True Strike (Sp): At 10th level, a dragonslayer may use true strike once per day as a move action.

We might as well get something out of the Dragonslayer class.

I suppose a Su special attack. I can find no feats that dazzle without magic.

I don't see why dazzle couldn't be an Ex attack - what about the old "throw pepper in the eyes" trick?

And don't say it only works with magic pepper.

This almost sounds like improved evasion (perhaps restricted to breath weapons?), Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat (like the dragonslayer prestige class), and the attack bonus could be simply rolled into favored enemy and/or bane.

That sounds OK to me. I'm tempted to give them all Evasion vs Breath Weapons as a basic ability, and have Improved Evasion vs Breath Weapons as an option.

Ex special attack for double damage x/day, or maybe add level/HD like fiendish template or improved crit range vs. dragons?

I'm thinking a "Smite Dragon" attack based on Hit Dice. There are plenty of similar special attacks.

I believe I've seen a similar power...

We've already thinking about a number of damage-boosting powers, so I'd prefer something more interesting.

It sounds a bit like the Throw Anything and Power Throw feats.

Sounds about right.

Might be able to borrow from wingbind spell.

I'm sure I've seen some other SAs that ground flyers, but can't recall exactly where...

 

[freyar]

Let's deal with one thing at a time, I guess.

Favored Enemy (Dragon) (Ex): Undead dragon slayers have dragons as favored enemies, as per the ranger class ability.

Dragonbane Weapon (Su): Any weapon wielded by an undead dragon slayer, including natural weapons??, gains a +1 enhancement bonus (does not stack) and the bane property against dragons. This is a supernatural ability of the undead dragon slayer and not of the weapon itself.

What do you think about having it apply to natural weapons?

You know, a dragon slaying weapon ability similar to the above might work as an option, too.

 

[Cleon]

Let's deal with one thing at a time, I guess.

Favored Enemy (Dragon) (Ex): Undead dragon slayers have dragons as favored enemies, as per the ranger class ability.

We'd need to say what bonus the Favored Enemy offers, and we were talking about giving its spells a DC boost against Dragons as well.

Dragonbane Weapon (Su): Any weapon wielded by an undead dragon slayer, including natural weapons??, gains a +1 enhancement bonus (does not stack) and the bane property against dragons. This is a supernatural ability of the undead dragon slayer and not of the weapon itself.

What do you think about having it apply to natural weapons?

You know, a dragon slaying weapon ability similar to the above might work as an option, too.

So Dragonbane Attacks instead of Dragonbane Weapons?

Didn't the original text suggests this ability only applies to a particular weapon of the Dragonslayer, suggesting they need to "tune a weapon to their powers" or something.

 

[freyar]

Oh yeah, right. What do you think, +4 bonus for favored enemy? That would give the weapon 2d6+6 extra hp of damage vs dragons compared to other critters, or +13hp on average. I guess we could bump to +6 favored enemy.

The original text just says "Undead dragon slayers use long swords (80% likely) or two-handed swords (20% likely). This weapon functions as a sword +2, dragon slayer in the slayer’s hands, and the slayer can attack three times in every two combat rounds." It doesn't seem to me that "attuning" is required. Sounds like some sort of hasting might be involved or something like Whirlwind Attack . Could be something we swap into the "menu."

Anyway, here we are, adding a proposal for the casters:
Favored Enemy (Dragon) (Ex): Undead dragon slayers have dragons as favored enemies with a bonus of +6, as per the ranger class ability.

Dragonbane Attacks (Su): Any weapon wielded by an undead dragon slayer, including natural weapons, gains a +1 enhancement bonus (does not stack) and the bane property against dragons. This is a supernatural ability of the undead dragon slayer and not of the weapon itself.

Anti-Dragon Casting (Ex): Undead dragon slayers gain the benefits of Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Focus for all spells cast against dragons. In addition, an undead dragon slayer may Maximize one spell per day at no cost if that spell's target is a dragon.