Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

[freyar]

I think we can get this one converted in a few weeks, especially using Cleon's homebrew as a references. However, that homebrew seems to make use of a lot more information than the original stats. Cleon, can you post a summary of other information from the adventure?

 

[Cleon]

I think we can get this one converted in a few weeks, especially using Cleon's homebrew as a references. However, that homebrew seems to make use of a lot more information than the original stats. Cleon, can you post a summary of other information from the adventure?

Sure!

The chapter revolves around an extradimensional maze created by an enchanted carpet made of "woven space-time". The inner maze contains the trapped spirit of the eponymous Phlegamor, a Death Slaad dubbed the "Maze Master". Any creature who dies in the inner maze is animated by Phlegamor after an hour and the corpse becomes one of his servants.

The following passage from the adventure is pretty much all the background on these creatures:

Despite his alarming size and appearance, the Maze Master holds no real corporeal form. What explorers in the maze see is no more than an illusion of light and sound incapable of true action. However, this does not render him powerless. Instead of making direct attacks or taking action himself, he commands a force of animated servants. The bodies of all who die in the maze—either by violence or (more frequently) of starvation or suicide form mystical stone rings on their left hands. Such corpses fall permanently under the control of Phlegamor. This will happen even to player characters who die in the maze and remain for more than an hour.

Two of the Maze Master’s servants lurch out of the doorway, appearing where their master vanished. (They appear right in the doorway, where they can launch themselves into the weightless environment of the Outer Maze and not fall into the gravity of the Inner Maze.) Phlegamor himself directly controls the actions of these animated corpses which—despite their appearance—are not undead, but rather magically animated servants no different than matter given motion by an animate object spell. Thus, they cannot be turned or affected by any of the traditional undead banes. They attack, but if a foe asks them a question, Phlegamor (through a servant) may very well answer it if it suits him. Further, attempts to reason with the Maze Master do not fall upon deaf ears.

Phlegamor’s twisted psyche only allows him two motives—destroy all who disturb the maze, and gather new and interesting knowledge. These two motives become reconciled in that Phlegamor assumes that intruders have nothing new to present to him. Suggestions to the contrary make him pause, interested. The DM should judge whether information offered to the Maze Master is truly new to him and significant enough to impress him. If it is, he will allow the intruders to escape from the maze immediately, returning them to the Entrance Hall.

It's worth pointing out that in the adventure Phlegamor's Servants are encountered in pairs, so it's possible he may only be able to control two at a time, although the description of a "force of animated servants" rather suggest he has more than a couple of them on the go at any one time.

 

[Oryan77]

It's worth pointing out that in the adventure Phlegamor's Servants are encountered in pairs, so it's possible he may only be able to control two at a time, although the description of a "force of animated servants" rather suggest he has more than a couple of them on the go at any one time.

I debated this in my own head when I read the description actually. I came to a conclusion that rather than it simply being a pair per appearance, the text in the adventure could be read as "a pair of Phlegamor's Servants appears whenever someone comes near the gem." Meaning, that it could be a pair per person coming within range.

My PCs average 7th level at this point. So if the CR is low, then a pair won't make for much of an encounter. A pair per PC though complicates the encounters. It doesn't help that the chapters can be run in any order, so balancing for PC level is difficult. As long as the ECL can be run with some middle ground, I can work with it.

I just mention the alternative interpretation in case it helps you guys with the creation process.

 

[Cleon]

I debated this in my own head when I read the description actually. I came to a conclusion that rather than it simply being a pair per appearance, the text in the adventure could be read as "a pair of Phlegamor's Servants appears whenever someone comes near the gem." Meaning, that it could be a pair per person coming within range.

My PCs average 7th level at this point. So if the CR is low, then a pair won't make for much of an encounter. A pair per PC though complicates the encounters. It doesn't help that the chapters can be run in any order, so balancing for PC level is difficult. As long as the ECL can be run with some middle ground, I can work with it.

I just mention the alternative interpretation in case it helps you guys with the creation process.

Hmm, yes that works.

Two servants versus the entire party is a bit of a walkover, while two per PC might require them to work up a sweat.

The adventure indicates that the servants don't kill most of the intruders to the inner maze - the majority die from starvation or suicide - suggesting they might not be that formidable compared to the usual intruders.

 

[Cleon]

My PCs average 7th level at this point. So if the CR is low, then a pair won't make for much of an encounter. A pair per PC though complicates the encounters. It doesn't help that the chapters can be run in any order, so balancing for PC level is difficult. As long as the ECL can be run with some middle ground, I can work with it.

Yes, and 7th level is already at the upper end of the level the original adventure was designed for. Presumably you're planning to adjust some of the future Chapters a Challenge Rating or two upwards to compensate.

It's easier in AD&D, where the level advancement tends to be slower and the "power curve" of advancing in levels is a lot shallower.

 

[freyar]

Why don't we make these a template? Strip off all class-based and Su/Sp abilities like a skeleton or zombie and add the special abilities in Cleon's homebrew. That could boost the Str and/or Dex and possibly melee attacks. Say there's a giant or balor in there or something. That would help with CR!

 

[Oryan77]

A template probably makes the most sense because the adventure does mention that it is usually humans and githyanki that become servants.

If you made it a template, can you make two example creatures? One as a human and another example creature as a githyanki appearing at the end of the template?

 

[Cleon]

Why don't we make these a template? Strip off all class-based and Su/Sp abilities like a skeleton or zombie and add the special abilities in Cleon's homebrew. That could boost the Str and/or Dex and possibly melee attacks. Say there's a giant or balor in there or something. That would help with CR!

I don't remember whether I considered doing them as a Template or not when I did the Homebrew, but we might as well attempt that approach for the CC if only to differentiate them.

The tricky bit is the Hit Dice, since the Servant has 4. If we stripped out the original abilities then the template would either have to quadruple the original creature's base HD (which would easily get out of hand) or add number that would make a typical Medium humanoid creature up to 4 HD (e.g. +3 HD for Medium size).

Of those two options, I prefer the latter.

Alternatively, we could simply say the Servant has the same number of HD as the original monster and the sample creatures just happened to be 4th level warrior-types.

If you made it a template, can you make two example creatures? One as a human and another example creature as a githyanki appearing at the end of the template?

I was thinking it'd be pretty obvious we'd do that, although there wouldn't be much difference in their stats once we stripped out their original abilities.

 

[Cleon]

Why don't we make these a template? Strip off all class-based and Su/Sp abilities like a skeleton or zombie and add the special abilities in Cleon's homebrew. That could boost the Str and/or Dex and possibly melee attacks. Say there's a giant or balor in there or something. That would help with CR!

I'm not sure you can turn a Balor into a Skeleton or Zombie. Being an outsider, its body is formed from extraplanar essences and/or material so are its remains "corporeal" enough to be animated?

Offhand I can't think of any official 3E products that have Demon or Devil corpses that have been animated as undead - can you?

 

[freyar]

I
Alternatively, we could simply say the Servant has the same number of HD as the original monster and the sample creatures just happened to be 4th level warrior-types.

That's what I would do.

I'm not sure you can turn a Balor into a Skeleton or Zombie. Being an outsider, its body is formed from extraplanar essences and/or material so are its remains "corporeal" enough to be animated?

Offhand I can't think of any official 3E products that have Demon or Devil corpses that have been animated as undead - can you?

Here's the SRD:

“Skeleton” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

“Zombie” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

I mean, it looks to me like balors have skeletons, though there are obyrith and loumara types that are not really good candidates. But it would go against a lot of the background text about demons (and presumably other outsiders). On the other hand, we're talking about something different than undeath here, and I don't have a problem with giving Plegamor the ability to "possess" anything corporeal as a Construct servant.