Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

freyar · Apr 23, 2015

Yeah, I'm not sure how to make that more precise. Does "mind-affecting" actually have a definition other than "charms, etc" in the SRD?

Cleon · Apr 24, 2015

freyar said:
Yeah, I'm not sure how to make that more precise. Does "mind-affecting" actually have a definition other than "charms, etc" in the SRD?

There's also the definition of a mind-affecting spell in the Descriptor section of the Magic Overview: " A mind-affecting spell works only against creatures with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher."

That's not much help, though.

Come to think of it, there are some special qualities that are mind-affecting or based on mental abilities. Wild Empathy, for example.

Let's try to keep it simple and model the SQ and SA on the same principles.

How about.

Special Attacks: A Phlegamor's servant loses all spell-like special attacks and any special attacks from the base creature's character classes, if any. It retains any extraordinary or supernatural special attack of the base creature that is purely physical in nature, including breath weapons, but loses any special attack that is mind-affecting, language-dependent, or has a saving throw DC based on a mental ability score (Int, Wis or Cha). It also loses any special attack that operates as a spell but is not a (Sp) ability, such as a krenshar's scare.

Special Qualities: A Phlegamor's servant loses all spell-like special qualities and any special qualities from the base creature's character classes, if any. It retains the extraordinary or supernatural special qualities of the base creature with the following exceptions. It loses any special quality that is mind-affecting, language-dependent, or has a saving throw DC based on a mental ability score (Int, Wis or Cha). It also loses any special quality that operates as a spell but is not a (Sp) ability, such as a unicorn's magic circle against evil.

freyar · Apr 27, 2015

Funny, I'd prefer to keep the krenshar's scare since it seems physically based, but I don't see a good definition that's not going to have obvious exceptions. :erm:

Could we list some more obviously mental example and indicate the DM should use discretion? We've pulled that trick sometimes before.

Cleon · Apr 27, 2015

freyar said:
Funny, I'd prefer to keep the krenshar's scare since it seems physically based, but I don't see a good definition that's not going to have obvious exceptions. Could we list some more obviously mental example and indicate the DM should use discretion? We've pulled that trick sometimes before.

For clarification, I was thinking a Krenshar Phlegamor's Servant would keep the (Ex) "Bluff check" half of its scare ability, it's the (Su) half that refers to the scare spell it would lose.

Cleon · Apr 27, 2015

freyar said:
Funny, I'd prefer to keep the krenshar's scare since it seems physically based, but I don't see a good definition that's not going to have obvious exceptions. Could we list some more obviously mental example and indicate the DM should use discretion? We've pulled that trick sometimes before.

Oh, and I'd be fine adding "at the DM's discretion" for edge-case powers.

freyar · May 1, 2015

Yeah, I'm just a little more vague on the Su part of the scare, but it's also Cha-based, so it should be ruled out.

How about we just take what we have for both SAs and SQs and add "at the DM's discretion"?

Cleon · May 4, 2015

freyar said:
Yeah, I'm just a little more vague on the Su part of the scare, but it's also Cha-based, so it should be ruled out.

How about we just take what we have for both SAs and SQs and add "at the DM's discretion"?

Yeah, that seems for the best. We could spend ages trying to hammer out a precise definition of a "mental" ability.

freyar · May 4, 2015

Glad that's settled.

Speed and slam attack (including damage) seem ok to me. Anything else you want to do with special abilities before we work out CR, etc?

Cleon · May 5, 2015

freyar said:
Glad that's settled.

We need to agree on the wording before it's settled though. How's this:

Special Attacks: A Phlegamor's servant loses all spell-like special attacks and any special attacks from the base creature's character classes, if any. It retains any extraordinary or supernatural special attack of the base creature that is purely physical in nature, including breath weapons, but loses any special attack that is language-dependent or has a saving throw DC based on a mental ability score (Int, Wis or Cha). It also loses any other special attack that requires the mind or soul of the original creature to use, at the DM's discretion.

Special Qualities: A Phlegamor's servant loses all spell-like special qualities and any special qualities from the base creature's character classes, if any. It retains the extraordinary or supernatural special qualities of the base creature with the following exceptions. It loses any special quality that is language-dependent or has a saving throw DC based on a mental ability score (Int, Wis or Cha). It also loses any other special quality that requires the mind or soul of the original creature, at the DM's discretion.

freyar said:
Speed and slam attack (including damage) seem ok to me. Anything else you want to do with special abilities before we work out CR, etc?

No, I think we're good.

For the CR, it seems like we might want to give two progressions, one for base creatures with a lot of mind-powers (who'll be a LOT weaker) and one for physical threats (who'll be more-or-less the same).

Something like the associated and non-associated levels used in CR calculations.