Converting monsters from the second edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Shade]

you'd leave the denizen's Str at 19 then?

Yep.

more like Achilles' whole body. Will save won't be too big of a deal since it's a plant, but give 'em enough fireballs and you'll kill the 'sipper. of course, maybe that's part of the point, because then you'll free up as many as a dozen fully-charged pod denizens who are at that point mobile and will swarm the mage.

Ouch.

only if we put some kind of provision in there about gaining size per HD - at 30x30, 12 pods is already pretty crowded!

Agreed. We could add 10 feet of space for every bite gained. Or, if this is too complicated, just leave it off entirely.

good point - i wonder if a bunch of corpses lying around would be a good tip-off that this plant is dangerous? Standard, or less? i'm thinking less.

I'd say! Standard is probably fine. I've seen plenty of monsters with incidental treasure have standard.

 

[BOZ]

Agreed. We could add 10 feet of space for every bite gained. Or, if this is too complicated, just leave it off entirely.

we might not want to make a complex mechanic out of it. is there a rule anywhere that specifically deals with creatures over 30x30?


updating - how's it look now?

maybe time for a CR - it's not going to be *very* tough for its HD since it can be killed pretty easily (see my note on fireball bombardment above), though its attacks can be pretty tough if they get through.

maybe we also want to have a separate CR for pod denizens (which, one must assume, since you can't kill them since they're severed, you're going to have to fit them separately anyway) or maybe just factor their presence into the bloodsipper's CR and leave it at that? or should they have separte CR's that just affect the ECL?

 

[Shade]

we might not want to make a complex mechanic out of it. is there a rule anywhere that specifically deals with creatures over 30x30?

Not that I can think of.

updating - how's it look now?

I'll give it a good look-through momentarily.

maybe time for a CR - it's not going to be *very* tough for its HD since it can be killed pretty easily (see my note on fireball bombardment above), though its attacks can be pretty tough if they get through.

OK, it's definitely not CR 20...the ancient night twist at CR 20 has 25 HD and is more deadly. Also at CR 20, the orcwort has 32 HD, but is less deadly. The bloodsipper is far more dangerous than the red sundew and ironmaw at CR 13. Compared to the plague brush at CR 17, it has less HD (31 for the brush), but is about as deadly. So I'm thinking CR 15-17.

maybe we also want to have a separate CR for pod denizens (which, one must assume, since you can't kill them since they're severed, you're going to have to fit them separately anyway) or maybe just factor their presence into the bloodsipper's CR and leave it at that? or should they have separte CR's that just affect the ECL?

Nah, they're really part of the original encounter. I don't see them as much different than a summoned monster, which also doesn't have its own CR for XP rewards.

 

[Shade]

I looked it over, and other than the issues above, I think we're close to finishing.

 

[Tzeentch]

This ended up being a cool monster I think Mechanically interesting and cool flavor text make a good package.

15-17 CR sounds about right, the wild card is actually the denizens since players could possibly kill the plant and still have 12+ 4hd denizens swarming over them (heck, give them Swarmfighting as a bonus feet if the GM feels evil)

 

[BOZ]

Not that I can think of.

if you can think of a way to match a size increase to an HD increase (every 4-HD?) which would give it additional heads, we'll use that. otherwise, i'd rather not mess with it.

OK, it's definitely not CR 20...the ancient night twist at CR 20 has 25 HD and is more deadly. Also at CR 20, the orcwort has 32 HD, but is less deadly. The bloodsipper is far more dangerous than the red sundew and ironmaw at CR 13. Compared to the plague brush at CR 17, it has less HD (31 for the brush), but is about as deadly. So I'm thinking CR 15-17.

Nah, they're really part of the original encounter. I don't see them as much different than a summoned monster, which also doesn't have its own CR for XP rewards.

sounds good. to make things simple let's assume for CR and other purposes that a bloodsipper has 12 heads, and i'll add the following bit to the text: "the above statistics assume the bloodsipper has 12"


some other things i thought of while looking over the conversion:

Question. Should we include something about the coppery scent in the combat section or anywhere? the original text does say that it can be smelled up to 100 feet away.

Also, would you think that if you severed a head while it was attached to someone, would it remain attached or would it “fall off” and have to attach to a victim again?

I noted that in GoFP, a pod denizen was listed with 29 hp each. Raising the Con to 16 would give them 30 hp each. Yes, no, maybe so? I’m also thinking a higher Dex score should be in order, since they’re mobile (unlike the big plant).

 

[Shade]

if you can think of a way to match a size increase to an HD increase (every 4-HD?) which would give it additional heads, we'll use that. otherwise, i'd rather not mess with it.

Tying it in with every 4 HD would work well, as that would boost the CR by 1 at the same intervals. So maybe for every 4 HD gained, the bloodsipper gains another head and increases its space by the same size as the additional pod denizen?

sounds good. to make things simple let's assume for CR and other purposes that a bloodsipper has 12 heads, and i'll add the following bit to the text: "the above statistics assume the bloodsipper has 12"

That'll work.

Question. Should we include something about the coppery scent in the combat section or anywhere? the original text does say that it can be smelled up to 100 feet away.

Sure. From the scent ability:

"A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges."

Maybe we can simply state that the coppery smell is treated as overpowering scent?

Also, would you think that if you severed a head while it was attached to someone, would it remain attached or would it “fall off” and have to attach to a victim again?

I'd say it would remain attached for simplicity's sake.

I noted that in GoFP, a pod denizen was listed with 29 hp each. Raising the Con to 16 would give them 30 hp each. Yes, no, maybe so? I’m also thinking a higher Dex score should be in order, since they’re mobile (unlike the big plant).

I'm fine with the slight Con boost and perhaps a Dex boost of 4?

 

[BOZ]

Tying it in with every 4 HD would work well, as that would boost the CR by 1 at the same intervals. So maybe for every 4 HD gained, the bloodsipper gains another head and increases its space by the same size as the additional pod denizen?

i don't quite follow.

Sure. From the scent ability:

"A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges."

Maybe we can simply state that the coppery smell is treated as overpowering scent?

sounds good - would that be a SQ or just flavor text?

I'm fine with the slight Con boost and perhaps a Dex boost of 4?

good deal.

 

[Tzeentch]

Re: Smell
Probably just flavor text, a lot of critters have smells so bad they are (Ex) abilities but nothing special noted about detection (and Spot doesn't really cover smell). Something like "Creatures with the scent ability can detect the strong metallic stench of a bloodsipper at three times their normal range." or something?

Re: Denizens
Here's a statblock with the buffed stats.

Pod Denizen: CR -; Small plant; HD 4d8; hp 30; Init +1; Spd 40 ft.; AC 14, touch 12, flat-footed 13; Base Atk +3; Grp +3; Atk or Full Atk: bite +8 melee (1d8+4); Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft; SA attach; SQ low-light vision, plant qualities, vulnerability to salt; AL Chaotic Neutral; SV Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +0; Str 19, Dex 13, Con 16, Int -, Wis 9, Cha 3.
Skills and Feats: Hide +5.

The hide is just their DX and size modifier but might still be handy to list.

 

[Shade]

i don't quite follow.

Plants advance at a rate of +1 CR per 4 HD added. I figured we could tie in an additional head with each CR increase, and add 5 ft. to the bloodsipper's space (to account for the 5 ft. space of a pod denizen). Thus, a 24-HD bloodsipper would have 24 HD, 13 heads, and a space/reach of 35 ft./0 ft.

sounds good - would that be a SQ or just flavor text?

It's probably fine as flavor.