Converting monsters from the second edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Aspect of BOZ]

A bloodsipper... often grows

i like that better, actually.


OK, i'm going to try to find the time to look at the combat text and see how i can simplify that...

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

OK, here is the text we currently have for severing a tether. I absolutely agree that as it stands, this is a bit convoluted and needs some simplification. However, I also feel that most of it should be kept:

To sever a bloodsipper’s pod denizen tether, an opponent must make a successful sunder attempt with a slashing weapon. (The player should declare where the attack is aimed before making the attack roll.) Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity unless the foe has the Improved Sunder feat. An opponent can ready an action to attempt to sunder a bloodsipper’s tether when its pod denizen bites at him.

A bloodsipper’s tethers have 10 hit points each. If a pod denizen currently grappling a target is attached to a bloodsipper by the tether that is being attacked, another pod denizen usually makes the bloodsipper's attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a bloodsipper’s tethers deals 10 points of damage to the bloodsipper. The creature regrows severed tethers and pods in 1d10+10 days.

A bloodsipper’s body can be slain just like any other creature’s. Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a tether affects the body. For example, area effects deal damage to a bloodsipper's body, not to its tether or pod denizen. A pod denizen does not take damage so long as it remains tethered. Killing the bloodsipper automatically severs the tethers of all remaining pod denizens.

Targeted magical effects cannot sever a bloodsipper’s tethers (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts.

Here is the text from the hydra that we modeled that after:

A hydra can be killed either by severing all its heads or by slaying its body. To sever a head, an opponent must make a successful sunder attempt with a slashing weapon. (The player should declare where the attack is aimed before making the attack roll.) Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity unless the foe has the Improved Sunder feat. An opponent can strike at a hydra’s heads from any position in which he could strike at the hydra itself, because the hydra’s head writhe and whip about in combat. An opponent can ready an action to attempt to sunder a hydra’s head when the creature bites at him.

Each of a hydra’s heads has hit points equal to the creature's full normal hit point total, divided by its original number of heads. Losing a head deals damage to the body equal to half the head’s full normal hit points. A natural reflex seals the neck shut to prevent further blood loss. A hydra can no longer attack with a severed head but takes no other penalties.

Each time a head is severed, two new heads spring from the stump in 1d4 rounds. A hydra can never have more than twice its original number of heads at any one time, and any extra heads it gains beyond its original number wither and die within a day. To prevent a severed head from growing back into two heads, at least 5 points of fire or acid damage must be dealt to the stump (a touch attack to hit) before the new heads appear. A flaming weapon (or similar effect) deals its energy damage to the stump in the same blow in which a head is severed. Fire or acid damage from an area effect may burn multiple stumps in addition to dealing damage to the hydra’s body. A hydra does not die from losing its heads until all its heads have been cut off and the stumps seared by fire or acid.

A hydra’s body can be slain just like any other creature’s, but hydras possess fast healing (see below) and are difficult to defeat in this fashion. Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a head affects the body. For example, area effects deal damage to a hydra's body, not to its heads.

Targeted magical effects cannot sever a hydra’s heads (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts.

Most creatures have a much simpler mechanic, as such:

An opponent can attack a MONSTER’s PART with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A MONSTER’s (tentacles) have (X) hit points each. If a MONSTER is currently grappling a target with the (tentacle) that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a MONSTER’s PART deals (X) points of damage to the creature. A MONSTER usually withdraws from combat if it loses (X) PARTs. The creature regrows severed limbs in (X) days.

Or if there is more than one part that can be severed:

An opponent can make sunder attempts against a MONSTER’s PARTS1 or PARTS2 as if they were weapons. A MONSTER’s PARTS1 have (X) hit points, and its PARTS2 have (X) hit points. If a MONSTER is currently grappling a target with one PART1 or PART2, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the sunder attempt. Severing a MONSTER’s PART1 or PART2 deals damage to the MONSTER equal to half the limb’s full normal hit points. A MONSTER usually withdraws from combat if it loses (X) PARTS1 or (X) PARTS2. A MONSTER regrows severed limbs in (X) days.

A roper’s text is even simpler still, and probably too simple to be used as-is for the bloodsipper:

A strand has 10 hit points and can be attacked by making a successful sunder attempt. However, attacking a roper’s strand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the strand is currently attached to a target, the roper takes a -4 penalty on its opposed attack roll to resist the sunder attempt. Severing a strand deals no damage to a roper.

One change I definitely want to make is to make it clear that the pod denizen and tether are not separate items that can be attacked separately. A sunder attempt is done against the tether, and this cuts the pod from the plant. It’s referred to elsewhere in the 2E text as a “head,” so maybe calling it that will help. In fact, I may want to change all references so that "tethered pod denizen” becomes head, and the term “pod denizen” is used only to refer to one that becomes a separate creature. I want to get the idea across that sundering the head cuts the tether and cuts the pod denizen loose.

 

[Shade]

Hmmm...I'm not really seeing anything that should be cut. It isn't any more complicated than a hydra, which was good enough for the Monster Manual, right?

I'm fine with replacing "pod denizen" with head.

 

[Tzeentch]

I would argue the hydra is a difficult monster to track for the DM as well, so it's hardly the gold standard in good monster design. Five paragraphs to cover just how the heads work is annoying The whole pod denizen/tether interaction just gives me a headache

I apologize for going on about this stupid thing

Maybe:

An opponent armed with a slashing weapon can attack a bloodsipper tether with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. Bloodsipper tethers have 10 hit points each. If a bloodsipper is currently grappling a target with the tether that is being attacked, it usually uses another tether to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing a tether deals 10 points of damage to the creature. The bloodsipper regrows severed tethers in 1d10+10 days.

Targeted magical effects cannot sever a bloodsipper’s tethers (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts. Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a tether affects the body. For example, area effects deal damage to a bloodsipper's body, not to its tethers.

* The written rules already cover the provoked AoO and Improved Sunder for sunder attempts.
* The last bit seems to compress the other rules.

 

[Shade]

That rewrite looks fine to me. I agree that the AoO for sunder attempts is repetitive since it is clearly covered in the core rules.

 

[BOZ]

OK, altered it slightly and stuck it in. posting this one in the homebrews forum - have a look!

 

[Tzeentch]

Bloodsipper
Initiative: -9
* Shouldn't that be just -1 from Dex, or is size modifier applied as a special effect?

Environment: X (Far Realm?)
* Underground or Warm Forests maybe ("humid air")?


* A possible version that cuts down some verbiage, tries to clarify biting heads vs. pod denizens, moves some sentences around, and adds a statblock for the denizens themselves is below.
* I liked the automatic bite damage, it makes a lot of sense to me. I left the attach quality on the pod denizens as well.

A bloodsipper instinctively attacks anything moving within its vines, hoping to feed on the blood of living creatures. When it attacks, the nearest mature pods open with a loud wet "pop" and the pod denizen's biting heads coiled within whip out to burrow themselves into the soft flesh of their victims. A bloodsipper makes bite attacks using these tethered heads, and can attack any foe within its reach, once per round with each head that remains attached.

A biting head is merely an appendage of the bloodsipper until its tether is severed or destroyed. An opponent armed with a slashing weapon can attack a bloodsipper’s tether with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. Each bloodsipper’s tether has 10 hit points. If the tether being attacked is currently attached to a target, the bloodsipper usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing a tether deals 10 points of damage to the bloodsipper.

Any attack that is not (or cannot be) an attempt to sunder a tether affects the body. For example, area effects deal damage to a bloodsipper's body, not to its tether or head. Targeted magical effects cannot sever a bloodsipper’s tethers (and thus must be directed at the body) unless they deal slashing damage and could be used to make sunder attempts. Killing a bloodsipper automatically sunders the tethers of all remaining pod denizens.

Attach (Ex): If a bloodsipper hits with a bite attack, it uses the four clawed arms that surround the maw to latch onto the opponent’s body, automatically dealing bite damage each round it remains attached. Attached biting heads can be removed by grappling it and achieving a pin.

Pod Denizens (Ex): Biting heads separated from the bloodsipper turn into independent pod denizens (see below) on the following round. A bloodsipper can sever the tether of a biting head to free a pod denizen as a move action. Severed pod denizens and tethers are replaced in 1d10+10 days.

Pod Denizen: CR -; Small plant; HD 4d8; hp 18; Init -1; Spd 40 ft.; AC 12, touch 10, flat-footed 12; Base Atk +3; Grp +3; Atk or Full Atk: bite +8 melee (1d8+4); Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft; SA attach; SQ low-light vision, plant qualities, vulnerability to salt; AL Chaotic Neutral; SV Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +0; Str 19, Dex 9, Con 10, Int -, Wis 9, Cha 3.

<maybe briefly describe what denizens do here: probably fight and run when main plant is low health?>

.. etc as you had it


Rest looks awesome!

 

[BOZ]

Bloodsipper
Initiative: -9
* Shouldn't that be just -1 from Dex, or is size modifier applied as a special effect?

brainfahrt?

Environment: X (Far Realm?)
* Underground or Warm Forests maybe ("humid air")?

they probably don't need to be limited exclusively to forested areas, as they don't really fit in with any other vegetation (except as possible camouflage) - does "Warm land and underground" sound decent?

* A possible version that cuts down some verbiage, tries to clarify biting heads vs. pod denizens, moves some sentences around, and adds a statblock for the denizens themselves is below.
* I liked the automatic bite damage, it makes a lot of sense to me. I left the attach quality on the pod denizens as well.

good call - and they probably don't need the blood drain either, since they probably lack the ability to process it.

i'll incorporate some of your changes and eventually update the other post.

Pod Denizen: CR -; Small plant; HD 4d8; hp 18; Init -1; Spd 40 ft.; AC 12, touch 10, flat-footed 12; Base Atk +3; Grp +3; Atk or Full Atk: bite +8 melee (1d8+4); Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft; SA attach; SQ low-light vision, plant qualities, vulnerability to salt; AL Chaotic Neutral; SV Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +0; Str 19, Dex 9, Con 10, Int -, Wis 9, Cha 3.

<maybe briefly describe what denizens do here: probably fight and run when main plant is low health?>

cool, thanks, that's exactly the sort of thing i was looking for. i could see it having a lower Str without the tether to back it up, maybe 15-ish?

 

[Shade]

they probably don't need to be limited exclusively to forested areas, as they don't really fit in with any other vegetation (except as possible camouflage) - does "Warm land and underground" sound decent?

I think that should suffice.

cool, thanks, that's exactly the sort of thing i was looking for. i could see it having a lower Str without the tether to back it up, maybe 15-ish?

Nah...no sense complicating it further, eh?

Looking good, otherwise.

I love those saving throws. Achilles heel, anyone?

For advancement, might as well go with 21+ (Colossal). Should we allow it to gain an additional bite attack for every X HD gained?

Treasure is probably present, since it is immobile and nothing seems to indicate that it digests anything other than blood.

 

[BOZ]

Nah...no sense complicating it further, eh?

Looking good, otherwise.

you'd leave the denizen's Str at 19 then?

I love those saving throws. Achilles heel, anyone?

more like Achilles' whole body. Will save won't be too big of a deal since it's a plant, but give 'em enough fireballs and you'll kill the 'sipper. of course, maybe that's part of the point, because then you'll free up as many as a dozen fully-charged pod denizens who are at that point mobile and will swarm the mage.

For advancement, might as well go with 21+ (Colossal). Should we allow it to gain an additional bite attack for every X HD gained?

only if we put some kind of provision in there about gaining size per HD - at 30x30, 12 pods is already pretty crowded!

Treasure is probably present, since it is immobile and nothing seems to indicate that it digests anything other than blood.

good point - i wonder if a bunch of corpses lying around would be a good tip-off that this plant is dangerous? Standard, or less? i'm thinking less.