Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

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Hmm, running my eye over those the first impression is my rough draft of the Challenge Rating table is a bit low. That troll looks like a low 20s CR to me.

Then again, that troll might have a nasty Devastating Critical, but most 20th level characters have fortitude. The CR20 Tarrasque's epic DR, higher regeneration and spell resistance make it nastier.

Of course, if the Tarrasque was properly designed it'd have something far nastier than six Toughness feats...
 

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Whew, that's a lot.

Just a comment on the waterblast. Since it's such a powerful blast, wouldn't it make sense that the water itself does some bludgeoning damage?
 

Had a bit of time over the weekend, so here's my take on the spectre (from the Immortals Set).

[FONT=20 size=3D4]Mystaran Gargantuan - Spectre[/FONT]
Gargantuan Undead (Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 56d12 (382 hp)
Initiative: +14
Speed: 80 ft. (16 squares), fly 160 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 18 (+6 Dex, +6 Deflection, -4 size), touch 18, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +28/--
Attack: Incorporeal touch +35 melee (4d8 plus energy drain/19-20)
Full Attack: Incorporeal touch +35 melee (4d8 plus energy drain/19-20)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Energy drain, create spawn
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., incorporeal traits, +4 turn resistance, sunlight powerlessness, undead traits, unnatural aura
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +24, Will +30
Abilities: Str --, Dex 22, Con --, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 22
Skills: Hide +53, Intimidate +65, Knowledge (religion) +61, Listen +63, Search +61, Spot +63, Survival +2 (+4 following tracks)
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (touch), Improved Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Toughness(x7), Weapon Focus (touch)
Epic Feats: Superior Initiative
Environment: Any land or underground
Organisation: Solitary or gang (1 plus 1-10 spectres)
Challenge Rating: 24
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always lawful evil
Advancement: 57-84 HD (Gargantuan), 85-112 HD (Colossal)
Level Adjustment: ---

A massive, faintly luminous, ghostly humanoid swoops quickly towards you.

COMBAT
In close combat a spectre attacks with its numbing, life-draining touch. It makes full use of its incorporeal nature, moving through walls, ceilings, and floors as it attacks.

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a gargantuan spectre's incorporeal touch attack gain 2 negative levels. The DC is 44 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based. For each such negative level bestowed, the gargantuan spectre gains 5 temporary hit points.

Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a gargantuan spectre becomes a (normal) spectre in 1d4 rounds. Spawn are under the command of the gargantuan spectre that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities thay had in life.

Unnatural Aura (Su): Animals, whether wild or domesticated, can sense the unnatural presence of a gargantuan spectre at a distance of 120 feet. They do not willingly approach nearer than that and panic if forced to do so; they remain paniced as long as they are within that range.

Sunlight Powerlessness (Ex): Spectres are powerless in natural sunlight (not merely a daylight spell) and flee from it. A spectre caught in sunlight cannot attack and can only take a single move or attack action in a round.

A few points:
1. Being an incorporeal undead obviously effected the template (no Str, Con, or natural armor increases) - as compensation I split the Ability increases (due to the additional HD) between Dex and Cha. I also kept it's perfect flight ability rather than reducing it to clumsy.
2. I upped its turn resistance to +4
3. I was tempted to up its Energy Drain to 4 negative levels until I calculated the Fortitude DC!
4. The version in my campaign has the following (non SRD) feats from Libris Mortis - Daunting Presence, Baleful Moan, Improved Energy Drain, Improved Toughness, Improved Turn Resistance, Life Drain, and Positive Energy Resistance. They replace the following feats from the stat block - Toughness(x7) [maybe add as a sidebar - 'if you have Libris Mortis...']
5. CR 24 seems rather low!!!

Regards
Mortis
 
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Updated.

I think our current CR modification needs work. All the samples would appear to mop the floor with other creatures of their CR.

Mortis raises some good points about applying the template to incorporeal creatures. We'll need to revise the template accordingly. At the very least, the loss of the huge boost to Str and Con would lessen the CR adjustment for incorporeal critters.
 

Updated.

I think our current CR modification needs work. All the samples would appear to mop the floor with other creatures of their CR.

Mortis raises some good points about applying the template to incorporeal creatures. We'll need to revise the template accordingly. At the very least, the loss of the huge boost to Str and Con would lessen the CR adjustment for incorporeal critters.

Ahem, there's another problem:

Creating a Mystaran Gargantua
"Mystaran gargantua" is a template that can be added to any any corporeal, living creature of less than Colossal size (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A Mystaran gargantua has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
If I recall correctly, that's following the lead of the Mystaran Monstrus Compendium. We'll either have do drop the spectre or change the template.
 

If I recall correctly, that's following the lead of the Mystaran Monstrus Compendium. We'll either have do drop the spectre or change the template.
Caught this just before signing off and going to bed!

There are three incorporeal gargantua in the Immortals rulebook (spectre, wight & wraith IIRC) - they are all special followers/servants of Orcus along with a few corporeal undead. So I guess he created them rather than the wizard Gargantua.

It may be that we need two templates, although I would prefer to keep it to just the one.

Regards
Mortis

PS. Not to feel left out Demogorgon also gets some gargantua followers - all lizard/reptile based.
 

A few points:
1. Being an incorporeal undead obviously effected the template (no Str, Con, or natural armor increases) - as compensation I split the Ability increases (due to the additional HD) between Dex and Cha. I also kept it's perfect flight ability rather than reducing it to clumsy.
2. I upped its turn resistance to +4
3. I was tempted to up its Energy Drain to 4 negative levels until I calculated the Fortitude DC!
4. The version in my campaign has the following (non SRD) feats from Libris Mortis - Daunting Presence, Baleful Moan, Improved Energy Drain, Improved Toughness, Improved Turn Resistance, Life Drain, and Positive Energy Resistance. They replace the following feats from the stat block - Toughness(x7) [maybe add as a sidebar - 'if you have Libris Mortis...']
5. CR 24 seems rather low!!!

Regards
Mortis

#1
Its increased HD are not Advancement per se, so I don't think gargantua's get ability increase from them. We could make that explicit in the Abilities entry:

Abilities: A Mystaran gargantua's ability scores are increased according to the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table. This includes adjustments for the creature's increased size and Hit Dice.

#2
With that many HD it doesn't need the increased turn resistance.

#3
I'd be tempted to give it at least one more level of energy drain, DC44 or not.

#4
At the very least it could be Epic Toughness for an extra 189 hit points.

#5
Agreed! The Challenge Rating table does need work - that's one reason we're doing some samples before finalizing it.

Now, I'm wondering whether we should add "Incorporeal Gargantua" and "Undead (or Construct?) Gargantuas" sub-entries, since the regular Mystaran Gargantua template doesn't work that well for them?
 

Caught this just before signing off and going to bed!

There are three incorporeal gargantua in the Immortals rulebook (spectre, wight & wraith IIRC) - they are all special followers/servants of Orcus along with a few corporeal undead. So I guess he created them rather than the wizard Gargantua.

It may be that we need two templates, although I would prefer to keep it to just the one.

Regards
Mortis

PS. Not to feel left out Demogorgon also gets some gargantua followers - all lizard/reptile based.

I'll have to look them up.

Anyhow, I'm thinking it'd be easier adding a sub-entry for Undead and Incorporeal Gargantua with a different ability-increase table and a few modifications to their special abilities.
 

It may be that we need two templates, although I would prefer to keep it to just the one.

Agreed.

Anyhow, I'm thinking it'd be easier adding a sub-entry for Undead and Incorporeal Gargantua with a different ability-increase table and a few modifications to their special abilities.

Yeah, that's probably the best approach. An underbar should suffice.

The main changes, as I see 'em, will be:
  • Boosting Dex and/or Cha instead of Str (incorporeal) and Con (both)
  • Improving deflection bonus rather than natural armor (incorporeal)
  • Boosting undead-specific attacks (energy drain, ability camage, etc.)
  • The manueverability should not drop for incorporeal creatures
 

I'll have to look them up.
Here's a quick list - the entries themselves are much bigger - just a line for each creature noting AC, HD attacks etc.

Orcus
Skeleton
Zombie
Ghoul
Wight - which is obviously not incorporeal despite my earlier post :blush:
Wraith
Mummy
Spectre

Demogorgon
Spitting Cobra
Pit Viper
Gecko
Rattlesnake
Python
Horned Chameleon
Tuatara

In response to your comments
#1 As a template that adds HD grants additionial skill points and feats, I assumed that the same applies to ability scores - could be wrong though.
#2 Well it doesn't need the additional, but... ;)
#3 3 levels might work, I was initailly thinking of 4. Although I guess at that CR (whatever it ends up as) a lot of PCs will have protection against energy drain.
#4 It does have enough Epic Feat slots doesn't it ;)

Regarding incorporeal creatures/undead etc.
Maybe a note that incorporeal creatures add the modifier to Dex rather than Str. Likewise for deflection in regards to natural armor.

Undead could add to Cha rather than Con.

Although incorporeal undead will obviously get both bonuses to their AC.

Regards
Mortis
 

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