Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

Cleon

Legend
Okay, how about this?

Rank 3 Summons: Centaur [NG], Faerie Changeling [any non-Evil], Satyr [CN; without pipes]
Rank 4 Summons: Batibat [CN, no talisman], Callicantzaros [NE], Gahonga [CN], Grain Nymph, Giant Owl [NG]
Rank 5 Summons: Chevall [NG], Nixie (sprite) [Aquatic], Satyr [CN; with pipes], Shatjan [LN], Stone Maiden [NG], Unicorn [CG]
Rank 6 Summons: Agta [CN], Manggus [CE], Nereid [CN], Pixie (sprite) [NG; no special arrows], Sakina [CG]
Rank 7 Summons: Baobhan Sith [CE], Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep arrows], Korred [CN], Thunder Child [NE], Treant [NG]
Rank 8 Summons: Actaeon, Ga-hon-ga (jogah) [CG], Phouka (includes lach púca) [CN], Quickling [CE]
Rank 9 Summons: Great Callicantzaros [NE], Grig (sprite) [NG; with fiddle], Leprechaun, Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep & memory loss arrows and can cast irresistible dance], Unicorn Celestial Charger [CG]

While going through the various Fey I noticed a few miscellaneous errors which have been noted in the Corrections to Monsters in the CC thread.
 

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Cleon

Legend
I can go for this. Let's do it! Think that's enough for the summon fairy folk ability?

Updating Summon Sylvan Folk Rough Draft.

There are two issues I think need addressing.

Firstly, I'd rather have at least one neutral "sylvan folk" in each rank and/or representatives of all the alignment axis (a chaotic, lawful, good or evil faerie). While summon nature's ally doesn't have summon monster's rule of "When you use a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type", I'd like the caprine to have the option to summon a faerie of a "compatible" alignment rather than having to chose one whose idiom might be widely at odds with their own morality. Current alignments are:

Rank 1 Summons: N, LG, LN [add Evil, Chaotic?]
Rank 2 Summons: N, NE, LE, LN, CN, CE, CG [all 4 axes!]
Rank 3 Summons: N, NG, LG, LN, CN, CG [add Evil?]
Rank 4 Summons: N, NE, NG, CN [add Lawful?]
Rank 5 Summons: N, NG, LN, CN, CG [add Evil?]
Rank 6 Summons: NG, CN, CE, CG [add Lawful and/or Neutral?]
Rank 7 Summons: NE, NG, CN, CE [add Lawful and/or Neutral?]
Rank 8 Summons: N, CN, CE, CG [add Lawful?]
Rank 9 Summons: N, NE, NG, CN, CE, CG [add Lawful and/or Neutral?]

Secondly, we need rules for the numbers that can be summoned. We could just use the standard summon nature's ally rule (one of same rank, 1d3 of a rank lower, 1d4+1 of two ranks lower), but personally I'd rather allow for larger numbers at three or more ranks. Either do a "numbers by rank" table perhaps based on the one for the Greater Wererat or have a rule for combining summon ranks, such as "a summons can be substituted for two sets of 1d4+1 creatures three ranks lower (the sets can be of different creatures), thus a rank 7 summons can be substituted for 2d4+2 rank 4 creatures, and those rank 4s could each be substituted for 2d4+2 rank 1 creatures".
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
For the numbers, if you don't want to use the standard SNA rule, let's go with the second choice or something similar. But 2d4+2 critters 3 ranks down seems like too few/not accessible enough, while the standard 1d4+1 one rank down (if nested) seems too many. What about 2d4+2 every 2 levels?
 

Cleon

Legend
For the numbers, if you don't want to use the standard SNA rule, let's go with the second choice or something similar. But 2d4+2 critters 3 ranks down seems like too few/not accessible enough, while the standard 1d4+1 one rank down (if nested) seems too many. What about 2d4+2 every 2 levels?

Pardon? The standard is 1d4+1 two ranks down, it's 1d3 one rank down.

I did wonder about whether 2d4+2 was too few and considered making it 2d6+2 (i.e. two sets of 1d6+1 creatures three ranks lower) but was worried it was slightly too good.

When you say 2d4+2 every 2 levels do you mean nested? Like so:

Nested 2d4 +2 per 2 Levels
max 0 - one summon IX = 1d3 summon VIII = 1d4+1 summon VII
split 1 - 2d4+2 summon VII
split 2 - 4d4+4 summon V
split 3 - 8d4+8 summon III
split 4 - 16d4+16 summons I

That's 56 summon I creatures on average of up to 16 types, which seems quite a few too keep track of.

Contrariwise, if you meant linearly:

Linear 2d4+2 per 2 Levels
max 0 - one summon IX = 1d3 summon VIII = 1d4+1 summon VII
split 1 - 2d4+2 summon VII
split 2 - 4d4+4 summon V
split 3 - 6d4+6 summon III
split 4 - 8d4+4 summons I

The lowest level ones seem too few in number to be of much value to an 18th+ HD caprine to spend the effort on summoning them compared to the fewer but significantly more powerful higher ranks.

Regarding the accessibility issue, the only way to increase I could think of is having the splitting "kick in" a level higher, but if we did that the split summons would end up oddly ranked.

Alternative #1:
summon one creature of a rank equal to the caprine's summoning rank.
1d3 creatures of a rank one lower than the summoning rank.
1d4+1 creatures of a rank two lower than the summoning rank.
OR
two separate summons of a rank two lower than the summoning rank (so 2 creatures 2 ranks lower, 2d3 creatures three ranks lower, or 2d4+2 creatures four ranks lower).

That's weaker than my previous proposal, so seems untenable.

Alternative #2:
summon one creature of a rank equal to the caprine's summoning rank.
1d3 creatures of a rank one lower than the summoning rank.
1d4+1 creatures of a rank two lower than the summoning rank.
OR
two separate summons of a rank one lower than the summoning rank (so 2 creatures one ranks lower, 2d3 creatures two ranks lower, 2d4+2 creatures three ranks lower).

That might work, but it's basically the same as the original proposal for the 2d4+2 splitting with an overlap option added to higher summoning ranks. One problem is that while the standard 1d3 gives the same average number of creatures summoned as two summons a rank lower it's more reliable and versatile, while 2d3 creatures a rank two lower is somewhat better than the standard summons 1d4+1 of that rank. On average half a creature better!

If it stacks it would also exponentially increase the numbers way to quickly, which apart from the balance issues is fiddly to keep track of it the caprine can summon difference creatures with each half or a summons.

Alternative #2 (1-step split)
max 0 - one summon IX = 1d3 summon VIII = 1d4+1 summon VII
split 1 - two summons VIII = 2d3 summon VII = 2d4+2 summon VI
split 2 - four summons VII = 4d3 summon VI = 4d4+4 summon V
split 3 - eight summons VI = 8d3 summon V = 8d4+8 summon IV
split 4 - 16 summons V = 16d3 summon IV = 16d4+6 summon III
split 5 - 32 summons IV = 32d3 summon III = 32d4+32 summon II
split 6 - 64 summons III = 64d3 summon II = 64d4+64 summon I
split 7 - 128 summons II = 128d3 summon I
split 8 - 256 six summons I (!)

While the earlier proposals:

Alternative #2 (2-step split)
max 0 - one summon IX = 1d3 summon VIII = 1d4+1 summon VII
split 1 - two summons VII = 2d3 summon VI = 2d4+2 summon V
split 2 - four summons V = 4d3 summon IV = 4d4+4 summon III
split 3 - eight summons III = 8d3 summon II = 8d4+8 summon I
split 4 - sixteen summons I

Original proposal (3-step split)
max 0 - one summon IX = 1d3 summon VIII = 1d4+1 summon VII
split 1 - 2d4+2 summon VI
split 2 - 4d4+4 summon III

That's not including "mixed splits", the original proposal only allowed those for summon VII and higher, with the maximum being a summon IX split into 4d4+4 summon III creatures plus 1d4+1 summon VI creatures.

Upon reflection, it would be nice to have a mixed split with a set of 1 or 1d3 on one side of the split if we could figure out a neat way of doing it.

I do think that restricting it to 3-step splits is the way to go, assuming we decide to use splitting at all of course!

Hmm… maybe have the split summons be two sets of 1d4+1 creatures three ranks lower (which may be different creatures) OR a set with a single creature one rank lower plus a set with 1d3 creatures two ranks lower AND each set in a split may be split again in the same way.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ugh, I'm always too tired when I post.

Just for simplicity, I don't think I'd let them split more than once. So what about alternative #2 (before the splits)? Unless I'm misunderstanding the later ones.
 

Cleon

Legend
Ugh, I'm always too tired when I post.

Just for simplicity, I don't think I'd let them split more than once. So what about alternative #2 (before the splits)? Unless I'm misunderstanding the later ones.

Okay, so it can either do a "standard summons" of 1 summons N, 1d3 summons N-1, 1d4+1 summons N-2, or a "single split summons" with two sets of summons. That'd be acceptable, although if we do that I'd like the individual sets to include the option of having more than 1d4+1 creatures.

Also, I'm not keen on including 2×1 summons N-1 or 2×1d3 summons N-2 in the options, since I think it devalues the standard summon's 1d3 summons N-1 and 1d4+1 summons N-2, so how about the split can only include one N-1 and one N-2 summons?

So the options for the max-ranked summoning would be:

A first set that's either 1 summons VIII, 1d4+1 summons VI or a yet to be determined number (henceforth "#") of summons V or lower.

A second set that's either 1d3 summons VII, 1d4+1 summons VI or # summons V or lower.

So the options would be:

1 summons VIII plus 1d3 summons VII
1 summons VIII plus 1d4+1 summons VI
1 summons VIII plus # summons >V
1d3 summons VII plus 1d4+1 summons IV
1d4+1 summons VI plus 1d4+1 summons VI
1d4+1 summons VI plus # summons >V
# summons >V plus # summons >V
 


Cleon

Legend
Well, that seems fine. Do you have an idea for the #?

How about 2d6 plus another 2d6 per reduction of the summoning rank?

i.e. 2d6 summons V, 4d6 summons IV, 6d6 summons III, 8d6 summons II or 10d6 summons I?

Oh, the split summons should summon the same numbers of low-rank creatures as a uniform summons does, so it should increase by 1d6 per rank instead of 2d6. Better remember to keep that in mind.

It seems easiest to express this with a rank IX summoning chart and say lower rank summonings just reduce the summon ranks, like so:


A caprine can summon a uniform group of the same creature or a mixed group of two different creatures.

When summoning a uniform group, a caprine with rank IX sylvan summoning can summon any selection from the following table:

Sylvan Summons Table for Uniform Group
1 rank IX creature
1d3 rank VIII creatures
1d4+1 rank VII creatures
2d4+2 rank VI creatures
4d6 rank V creatures
6d6 rank IV creatures
8d6 rank III creatures
10d6 rank II creatures
12d6 rank I creatures

When summoning a mixed group, a caprine with rank IX sylvan summoning can summon one selection from Column A plus one selection from Column B of the following table:

Sylvan Summons Table for Mixed Group
Column AColumn B
1 rank VIII creature
1d4+1 rank VI creatures
2d6 rank V creatures
3d6 rank IV creatures
4d6 rank III creatures
5d6 rank II creatures
6d6 rank I creatures
1d3 rank VII creatures
1d4+1 rank VI creatures
2d6 rank V creatures
3d6 rank IV creatures
4d6 rank III creatures
5d6 rank II creatures
6d6 rank I creatures

A caprine whose sylvan summoning ability is lower than the rank IX maximum simply adjusts the rank of the summoned creatures downwards by however many ranks they are below IX. For example, a caprine with rank VI sylvan summoning who summoned a uniform group of rank III creatures summons the same number as a rank IX sylvan summoner summoning rank VI creatures, namely 2d4+2.

I think that's a fine start.

Might cut out the "creatures" in the tables and think about how to tidy away the repetition of summons/summoning/summoner/summoned in the last paragraph.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
That's fine for me! It's definitely ok to drop the "creatures" in the table.

I'm with you on wanting to reduce summoners summoning, but I'm not entirely sure how unless you just drop the example. But I think we can wrap up this ability, agreed?
 

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