Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

Cleon

Legend
I still don't even see the flavor. However, I'd be amenable to an underbar stating that there are ancestral goatlings with lots of character levels who are immune to aging (funny, I don't see it in the type rules, but I thought Outsiders often are anyway). I'm not sure why they'd necessarily be immune to disease, though. I also don't see the need for a full statblock.

I was thinking of adding immunity to disease just to distinguish them more from "mortal" goatlings. It'll also help explain how they survive so long.

Moving on:
Regular goatfolk have Str 11, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 8. The Goatmen of Kavaja document suggests "Goatlings have a -1 penalty to Charisma and Wisdom. However, a +1 bonus may be applied to Strength and Intelligence, or a single +2 bonus to one of these two abilities at the player's option." So that looks ok, although the low Cha will hurt the SLAs for the "goat magic." I'd probably raise Cha to at least 10 maybe at the cost of a little Dex. What do you think?

As written, it suggest a racial bonus to Intelligence and Strength and a racial penalty to Charisma and Wisdom. Maybe +2 to one and -2 to t'other. We could leave it at that and not give them the Goatfolk's bonuses to Dex and Con.

As for the low Charisma penalizing the "Goat-Magic", who's to say it isn't Int-based?
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
How about immunity to natural but not magical diseases?

Well, in older editions, arcane magic was all Int-based, right? But these read as SLAs, so I'd think they should be Cha-based. If you want to make it Int-based, do you want to give them wizard casting instead?
 

Cleon

Legend
How about immunity to natural but not magical diseases?

Well, in older editions, arcane magic was all Int-based, right? But these read as SLAs, so I'd think they should be Cha-based. If you want to make it Int-based, do you want to give them wizard casting instead?

There's no rule that (Sp) powers have to be Cha-based, it's just the default.

For example, the Neh-Thalggu's Extract Brains (Sp) is Int-based.

"Goat Magic" seems to be its own thing, with a different power source (energy drained from captive fiends) to regular spells. We could model it as a new kind of Specialist Wizard, I suppose, with access to some unusual spells.

Besides, I'd like their racial bonus to Int to be good for something.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Under "Spell-like Abilities" in the SRD, it says
SRD said:
The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier.
There's not the same "usually" that Su abilities get. I wish they'd bothered to write consistent rules!

Well, we can go for the exceptional Int-based SLAs or else give them innate wiz casting with some strange spells. What do you prefer?
 

Cleon

Legend
Under "Spell-like Abilities" in the SRD, it says

There's not the same "usually" that Su abilities get. I wish they'd bothered to write consistent rules!

Well, we can go for the exceptional Int-based SLAs or else give them innate wiz casting with some strange spells. What do you prefer?

I would rather go for innate spellcasting ability in "a new kind of specialist wizard".
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I would rather go for innate spellcasting ability in "a new kind of specialist wizard".
I would, too. It doesn't even have to be a spell school specialization, just knowledge of these special spells. Anyway, the tough part is settled.

Applying the +1 and -1 modifiers to the goatfolk abilities gives us Str 12, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 11, Wis 7, Cha 7. Want to fuss with that any?
 

Cleon

Legend
I would, too. It doesn't even have to be a spell school specialization, just knowledge of these special spells. Anyway, the tough part is settled.

Most Goat Magic revolves around "empowerment points" gained by "discerping" energy levels from undead and enchanted creatures. That's quite a way from standard wizard casting.

Besides, the original Goatlings do not get any variation in their spells. They get them as set bonus abilities at certain levels.

Hmm... I'm starting to head back toward making them SLAs/Su powers again, aren't I, with an "Empowerment" special ability that ties to them.

Applying the +1 and -1 modifiers to the goatfolk abilities gives us Str 12, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 11, Wis 7, Cha 7. Want to fuss with that any?

I wouldn't use the Goatfolk conversion we did as a base creature. The Goatlings aren't any more Dextrous than humans and there's nothing about them being adroit at mountain-movement.

So, I'm thinking just +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha.

Thus an "average goatling" would be something like Str 12, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 9.

Their 3 levels of Outsider, supernatural abilities, and "civilized" equipment will mean they're more formidable than an average Goatfolk.

Giving them a mountain movement or a bonus to Dex and Con like the Goatfolk have would seem to be stepping on the hooves of the Ovinaur (Dex bonus & "great leap") and Caprine (Con bonus).
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
We did an "empowerment" type ability for the ghazneths a while back. That might be a reasonable place to start. I'm certainly amenable to SLAs or Su abilities. Perhaps the "empowerment" can specify that they use their Int bonus...

I'm ok with your proposed abilities.
 

Cleon

Legend
We did an "empowerment" type ability for the ghazneths a while back. That might be a reasonable place to start. I'm certainly amenable to SLAs or Su abilities. Perhaps the "empowerment" can specify that they use their Int bonus...

Yes, the Ghazneth's Absorb Magic / Expend Magic could make a useful start.

Shall we try to break it down. Basically, the Goatlings "Goat Magic" has three abilities:

"Discerp" - the ability to impose temporary negative levels on an Undead or Evil Outsider, which creates "empowerment points".

"Empower" - the ability to expend "empowerment points" to boost some of its actions.

"Goat Spells" - Limited use spell-like-abilities, the number of which increases with the goatling's character level or Hit Dice.

The original "Discerp" is described as a spell, but its "Empower" is an "innate ability". I propose making them both (Su). We could fold them into a single special ability, since they're two sides of the same supernatural coin, but I think it's easier to keep them separate.

Then we can write up the Goat Spells as a separate (Sp) ability.

Do we want to allow goatlings with regular arcane spellcasting to learn how to cast "Goat Spells" as normal spells in addition to SLAs?

I'm ok with your proposed abilities.

Shall I update them with Str 12, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 9 then?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Yes, go ahead and update with the listed abilities.

I agree with doing Discerp and Empower as separate Su abilities. The others should be SLAs, I think, but not necessarily spells for caster goatlings. I think the "new" lesser and greater binding spells seem pretty similar to the planar binding spells, so I'm not sure we need new abilities for them.
 

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