Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters
- Thread starter Shade
- Start date
Cleon
Hero
He said "I'd make this a single target. Each use requires a Skill check. If it fails, the ability is negated for the remainder of the day. Each successful skill check results in the next one incurring a -1 cumulative penalty."
However, each resonance ability only works once per day (or once per resonance accumulation period if that's longer than a day), which conflicts with the multiple "uses" above.
I suggest that when a caprine uses Vitalize they can play for a length of time to affect multiple creatures if they can make the Perform checks.
Hmm…
Vitalize: A caprine with a resonance score of 41 or more can play music that fills living creatures (including the caprine itself) with energy and health. The caprine can play this vitalizing tune for up to 1 round per Hit Dice. Each round it makes a Perform check with a DC of 15 plus +1 per previous check. If it succeeds, it can vitalize a single creature within ## feet and continue playing; if it fails the Perform check the vitalizing tune ends. The target creature can choose to make a Will save (DC 10 plus 1/2 caprine's HD plus caprine's Cha modifier) against the tune, if they succeed they are not vitalized and cannot be targeted again by that vitalizing tune.
While the caprine plays a vitalizing tune, creatures vitalized by it are so full of uninhibited vigor they have difficulty doing anything requiring calm or concentration. They can perform energetic actions such as fighting, dancing or carousing normally, but must succeed at a DC 10 Concentration check to perform actions that require stillness or focus, including spellcasting, Intelligence-based skill checks and Hide, Move Silently or Open Locks checks. Once the vitalizing tune ends, affected creatures can act normally but remain vitalized for 1 hour per HD of the caprine (maximum 24 hours).
Being vitalized immediately removes the fatigue and exhaustion conditions. For each 4 hour period that passes, a vitalized creature recovers 1 hit point per character level and 1 point of ability score damage, just as if they healed naturally for a day. Unlike normal magical healing, vitalize can cure nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst. In addition, a vitalized creature becomes temporarily immune to disease and poison. However, any poison or disease in the creature's system or that it is exposed to during the period of vitality will affect them once the duration has expired (as per delay poison).
Cleon
Hero
Cleon
Hero
It's feeling a little too powerful. Is there any way we can water it down a tad?
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Yeah, and a caprine with a good ability score could get enough resonance notes starting around 11HD or so. And the effects last longer than sympathy too!
What if we put some conditions that break the enchantment and/or give the victims a lot of chances to save?
What if we put some conditions that break the enchantment and/or give the victims a lot of chances to save?
Cleon
Hero
Okay, here's a few ideas:
- It only affects the targets within range when the resonance is "cast", anyone entering the area afterwards while the duration is still running is unaffected.
- Obviously it doesn't have "but a subsequent save must be made 1d6×10 minutes later. If this save fails, the affected creature attempts to return to the area or object" like the sympathy spell.
- Maybe allow resaves each round to shrug off the effect, and it's automatically broken by threatening acts like a charm person spell.
- Oh, and maybe have the +5 bonus on saving throws if the target is currently being threatened or attacked, also like charm person.
Cleon
Hero
Yes, instead of every round it could be a resave whenever something that might distract them from the coveting?
Maybe we should shorten the duration? A day per level is ridiculous. Even sympathy only lasts 2 hours a level.
I suspect the exceptionally long duration is the fault of how long charm person lasted in early editions, which depended on the Intelligence score of the target.
In 1E AD&D it was:
| Intelligence Score | Period Between Checks |
| 3 or less | 3 months |
| 4 to 6 | 2 months |
| 7 to 9 | 1 month |
| 10 to 12 | 3 weeks |
| 13 to 14 | 2 weeks |
| 15 to 16 | 1 week |
| 17 | 3 days |
| 18 | 2 days |
| 19 or more | 1 day |
In BECMI the table depended on what version of the rules you used.
For example, the 1977 Basic Game used a similar table to the above with some slightly different numbers:
| Intelligence | New Saving throw every: |
| 3-6 | month |
| 7-9 | three weeks |
| 10-11 | two weeks |
| 12-15 | one week |
| 16-17 | two days |
| 18 or more | day |
While the Rules Cyclopedia simplified it to:
| If the Victim Has: | He Saves Every |
| High Intelligence (13-18): | 1 day |
| Average Intelligence (9-12): | 1 week |
| Low Intelligence (3-8): | 1 month |
So even a genius only saves once every day if charmed in early edition games.
In 3E however, a charm person spell just lasts 1 hour per level no matter how smart the victim is.
Incidentally, the sympathy spell lasts 2 hours/level in AD&D just like it does in 3E.
So I'm thinking we should reduce the duration. Maybe make it last an hour per level of the caprine?
It also needs a bit of clarification of what "coveting" means.
If it makes an evil creature want to possess the target, does that prevent the malevolent being from trying to harm them provided the target doesn't threaten them? Could a creature attack a coveted object that "rejects their affections" in a non violent manner?
I'm thinking not, with it working like the old "prince/princess captured by a tyrant who wants their prisoner to love them" trope.
Does covet provide any other benefits, such as bonuses on Diplomacy roles to trick or deceive the coveting creatures? Or is the target of the coveting creatures merely protected from harm in a fashion similar to sanctuary.
Hmm, is there any wording from sanctuary that'd be useful for this resonance power?
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I like an hour per level duration. To nerf it a little, what if there is a new save every hour or if prompted (by threatening acts, etc)?
I agree with you that a subject of covet would not attempt to harm the object/person they covet, though they might anyone else who covets the same object. I don't think I'd give any other benefits to the coveted character or object --- this is a powerful ability already!
Can the caprine make itself the coveted creature?
I agree with you that a subject of covet would not attempt to harm the object/person they covet, though they might anyone else who covets the same object. I don't think I'd give any other benefits to the coveted character or object --- this is a powerful ability already!
Can the caprine make itself the coveted creature?
Cleon
Hero
Yes, that'd work. Maybe with a +5 to save for threatening acts as per charm person?
Well I'd have them not be able to initiate attacks against the subject of their coveting but they ought to be allowed to defend themselves.
Hmm, the wording in "something or someone in the caprine's presence" which implies it could exclude the caprine itself, since how can it be in its own presence?
Contrariwise, the caprine indicates a "something" and every sentient within range must save versus spells or start wanting the something, so the caprine could "point to itself" to become covetable.
Which do you prefer?
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I'd agree to both of those proposals.
Yeah, I could go either way on this. I kind of have the feeling that a caprine would always indicate itself if that's allowed. Maybe it's more interesting not to allow that.
Cleon
Hero
Good.
Maybe we should just use the original wording of "indicate" which'll allow the possibility of it not being usable on the self without specifying that since it's not explicit in the original.
It'd also be odd, since most ranged spells and SLA abilities that can target another creature can be cast on yourself.
Let's bite the bullet and rough something out…
Cleon
Hero
Covet: A caprine with a resonance score of 71 or more can use alluring music to give all creatures within 40 feet (except the caprine itself) an irrational desire for something or someone within 10 feet [?] of the caprine. The creatures must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + ½ caprine's HD + caprine's Cha modifier) or begin coveting the object or creature indicated by the caprine. The effect lasts for 1 hour per Hit Dice of the caprine. Affected creatures may make additional Will saves (same DC) to shake off the effects every hour or if they are endangered by the resonance effect (with a +5 bonus on their save if whatever they covet threatens them). If they fail this save, an affected creature cannot initiate attacks against a coveted creature but may defend themselves from it.
How affected creatures act on the desires raised by covet depends on their alignment and personality: an evil being may want to molest or control the coveted target, while a good creature may try to woo or protect it. Coveting creatures will compete with each other to possess the target but will not act against their basic nature. Thus, close friends or good-natured allies will use persuasion, bribes, tricks or non-lethal force rather than try to kill or cripple their rivals.
This is a mind-affecting sonic compulsion ability.
How affected creatures act on the desires raised by covet depends on their alignment and personality: an evil being may want to molest or control the coveted target, while a good creature may try to woo or protect it. Coveting creatures will compete with each other to possess the target but will not act against their basic nature. Thus, close friends or good-natured allies will use persuasion, bribes, tricks or non-lethal force rather than try to kill or cripple their rivals.
This is a mind-affecting sonic compulsion ability.
Cleon
Hero
Wasn't sure how far away being in the caprine's "presence" should be so went for Long Reach.
Alternatively, we could make it 40 ft. like the effect radius and change it to "an irrational desire for something or someone within the affected area."
Any preferences?
Cleon
Hero
Updating the Resonance Working Draft.
I fused the single-line last paragraph into the previous paragraph, as it looked lonesome by itself.
Sure, that'll be March to War.
The original text is:
March to War: causes 4 HD-worth of creatures per level of the caprine, and within a 40' radius, to fade into the ethereal plane along with the caprine. Unwilling creatures may save vs. spells to avoid the effect.
The effect lasts as long as the caprine keeps playing his music, after which everyone reappears in the Prime Plane. Anyone straying more than 40' from the caprine immediately reappears. While in the ethereal, the caprine may march as he plays. A successful attack will cause him to stop playing his music. Can be empowered.
I'd already made a suggestion as to a comparable spell, which still seems valid:
Having it be limited by the Hit Dice of the targets is a curious quirk that I'm tempted to retain, although it'd be a bit more "standard 3.5" to have it be a number of creatures.
Making it 4×HD like the original means a high-HD caprine could yonk scores of weak followers through the ether or four of the same HD as them.
Curiously, the original text does not specify what speed they're moving at when Marching to War, but I'd assume it's faster than their normal rates otherwise it's a lot less useful. Although etherealness does have some applications even if they're just travelling at the normal forced march rate.
Hmm, maybe it's some multiple of their forced march rate, but this magical marching is not more tiring like a mundane forced march is?
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I think I'd probably make it a better version of shadow walk. Same 50 mi/hr but minus the random return location (b/c no shadowy weirdness). I think I do like the 4xHD limit, even if it is a little harder to calculate. Duration is as long as the caprine can play, then you end up back in the Material Plane. I guess the "wandering away from the caster" penalty is a bit different, too.
Cleon
Hero
Bear in mind that while shadow walk is a 5th-level Bard spell (or 6th-level for Sor/Wiz) and allows 1 creature/CL to travel for 1 hour/CL, etherealness is 9th-level and affects the caster plus one creature per three CLs for 1 minute/CL. Even ethereal jaunt is 7th-level and only allows the caster to travel for a round per CL.
That suggests moving ethereally is a far more difficult magic than traversing the Plane of Shadows.
I think March to War ought to be more limited than your suggestion to maintain some vague parity with the spells.
There's no mention in the resonance descreption of the marchers being able to move up or down through thin air or pass through solid objects, so maybe they don't completely enter the ethereal plane and and incorporeal rather than ethereal, which makes also them invisible to Prime Material creatures?
I'm OK for creatures to could travel faster than their normal hourly movement rate while under March to War, but 50 mph is too fast for my tastes.
Let's see, an average PC can hustle at 4 or 6 miles an hour, depending on whether they have a 20 ft. or 30 ft. base speed, or half that speed if they're walking normally. That means shadow walk is 10 or 20 times faster than a typical humanoid can travel, plus there's no risk of them tiring.
Somewhere around 10 or 20 miles an hour is more to my tastes.
As previously mentioned, I wouldn't mind making it based on the characters actual speed rather than it being a set speed à la shadow walk. How about having them move five times their walking pace (i.e. 15 miles per hour for a speed 30 ft. creature).
Oh, and I'd only have it multiply the recipient's land speed. It's March to War, not Fly to War!
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