Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[Cleon]

Yes, go ahead and update with the listed abilities.

Agreed. Updating Goatling Working Draft.

I agree with doing Discerp and Empower as separate Su abilities. The others should be SLAs, I think, but not necessarily spells for caster goatlings. I think the "new" lesser and greater binding spells seem pretty similar to the planar binding spells, so I'm not sure we need new abilities for them.

Yes, I agree we don't need to reinvent the planar binding spells.

The original has lesser planar binding as a 2nd level spell and greater planar binding as a 6th level spell, which is a considerable difference from the 5th level and 8th level spells they are in the SRD.

I'm thinking we should modify the levels (4th and 7th, maybe?) and note that the goat magic versions of these spells cannot be used to compel service. They can only trap a planar creature, which is usually then targeted with discerp attacks.

 

[freyar]

That's a reasonable modification. Just call them lesser binding and greater binding and put in a parenthetical "(as XX planar binding but cannot be used to compel service)." Then we can put a bit about their use with discerp in tactics.

 

[Cleon]

That's a reasonable modification. Just call them lesser binding and greater binding and put in a parenthetical "(as XX planar binding but cannot be used to compel service)." Then we can put a bit about their use with discerp in tactics.

I'd think we'd be better off mentioning it in Discerp rather than tactics.

 

[Cleon]

That's a reasonable modification. Just call them lesser binding and greater binding and put in a parenthetical "(as XX planar binding but cannot be used to compel service)." Then we can put a bit about their use with discerp in tactics.

Come to think of it, the Goatling's binding spells are not restricted to extraplanar creatures - it can affect any creature of lower HD than the caster. It also doesn't summon the target like a planar binding spell does. The goatling has to trick or force the target to enter the binding circle.

Furthermore, the Goat Magic greater binding includes a forcecage effect to prevent interference with the binding, as well as magical chains to restrain the captive. Should we not include those?

Overall, these spells have at least as much similarity to the binding spell than the various planar binding spells.

I think we'd better write them up from scratch.

 

[freyar]

Perhaps you're right. May I suggest changing the names to avoid confusion with the planar bindings and binding?

Any other SAs or SQs to add before we tackle these?

 

[Cleon]

Perhaps you're right. May I suggest changing the names to avoid confusion with the planar bindings and binding?

The name definitely needs changing!

Planar Shackles?

Planar Snare?

Planar Trap?

Hmm, the lesser version only paralyzes the victim, so I'd go for planar snare or planar trap.

Any other SAs or SQs to add before we tackle these?

Well they have a headbutt/ram attack, but I was just going to use the Goat Folk's version for that.

I wouldn't give the Goatlings the Goat Folk's mountain move ability, to make them a bit more distinct.

 

[freyar]

As you say, it's not limited to extraplanar critters, so maybe it shouldn't have "planar" in the name. Runic snare or runic shackles, maybe, to emphasize the drawn runes?

 

[Cleon]

As you say, it's not limited to extraplanar critters, so maybe it shouldn't have "planar" in the name. Runic snare or runic shackles, maybe, to emphasize the drawn runes?

How about binding circle or circle of binding?

 

[freyar]

Circle of binding rolls off the tongue nicely.

What next? The SLAs or discerp and empower?

 

[Cleon]

Circle of binding rolls off the tongue nicely.

What next? The SLAs or discerp and empower?

Well they're all closely tied together, so I think we'll be going back and forth a lot.

Logically, we should start with the Discerp, since that gives it the "power points" it uses for Empowerment, which finish with the SLAs (some of which it can Empower).

In 3E terms, it basically works like temporary negative levels which can never kill the "drained" victim.