Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[freyar]

Point taken. I like your idea of making them incorporeal rather than ethereal. I'm also ok with either fixing a speed at 10-20 miles/hr or going with 5x walking pace. It might be easier for the DM to deal with a group at a fixed speed, but I guess everyone's used to just going as fast as the slowest one anyway.

 

[Cleon]

Let's write out a rough draft then.

How's this:

March to War: A caprine with a resonance score of 71 or more can play a tune on a musical instrument that partially shifts creatures into the Ethereal Plane. The tune shifts the caprine plus up to 4 Hit Dice worth of creatures per HD of the caprine who are within 40 feet of the goatkin. The caprine chooses what order the tune shifts creatures in, an unwilling target is allowed a Will save (DC 10 + ½ caprine's HD + caprine's Cha modifier) to avoid shifting. A marching creature is incorporeal and invisible to creatures on the Prime Material Plane, fully material and visible to creatures on the Ethereal Plane, and moves at five times its normal land speed (i.e. 15 miles per hour for a 30 ft. speed). Other forms of movement, such as flight, are not increased by March to War.​

​

This resonance power lasts for as long as the caprine continues to play. If a creature ever moves more than 40 ft. from the caprine, its marching effect immediately ends and the creature becomes visible and corporeal. Effects that interfere with interdimensional travel, such as the dimensional lock spell, will interfere with March to War.​

​

Empowerment: A caprine can use empower spell magnitude on this resonance power. For every 2 empowerment points it expends it can affect one additional creature of any Hit Dice.​

I think that covers everything salient.

Oh, and for convenience here are links to the Caprine Working Draft and Resonance Working Draft.

It's been pages ago since I had a Capring Working Draft link on this thread.

 

[freyar]

Someday, we will have to figure out the most complicated/involved critters we ever converted. These various Kavajans are definitely up there.

Anyway, I'm happy enough with March to War as you have it there.
Are we down to Sound of Death?

 

[Cleon]

Someday, we will have to figure out the most complicated/involved critters we ever converted. These various Kavajans are definitely up there.

Most complicated as in how the final conversion turned out, or most complicated to figure out? Some of our critters were really hard to decide how to interpret and we spent a lot of time figuring out how to stat them up.

For example, the Tombheart took an awful long time to finish because we couldn't decide how its HD should match its associated Tomb Wardens, but the final monster isn't that complicated.

Indeed, I recall us abandoning a conversion because we couldn't get a handle on it in hard 3E rules terms, although I can't recall for sure what it was called. I vaguely remember it being some kind of man-eating stained glass window.

Anyway, I'm happy enough with March to War as you have it there.

Agreed, updating the Resonance Working Draft.

Are we down to Sound of Death?

Yes, here's the original text:

Sound of Death: as long as the caprine keeps playing his heart-wrenching cacophony without being interrupted, all foes within 40' suffer damage equivalent to 10% of their total hit points per round (no save). It is a difficult and demanding dissonant tune tapping into the caprine's own life force, reducing his hit points 1d4 each round. If he does not play all ten rounds of the tune, the caprine permanently loses a point of Constitution. If he does complete it, the ethereal harmony is disturbed and no other abilities are therefore available until the caprine starts accumulating resonance once more.​

That's the last of the Resonance powers, so the end is coming into sight! Hopefully the AC, skills, feats and background text won't take very long.

Oh, and there's a little work on the Caprines as Characters section to do.

 

[Cleon]

Sound of Death: as long as the caprine keeps playing his heart-wrenching cacophony without being interrupted, all foes within 40' suffer damage equivalent to 10% of their total hit points per round (no save). It is a difficult and demanding dissonant tune tapping into the caprine's own life force, reducing his hit points 1d4 each round. If he does not play all ten rounds of the tune, the caprine permanently loses a point of Constitution. If he does complete it, the ethereal harmony is disturbed and no other abilities are therefore available until the caprine starts accumulating resonance once more.

Okay, so this seems pretty straightforward mechanically.

Here's a start:

Sound of Death: The caprine plays a terrible cacophany on a musical instrument. This heart-wrenching sound lasts 10 rounds and can affect all living creatures within a radius of 40 feet from the caprine who can hear the tune. The caprine can tune a sound of death so it affects or spares particular creatures, specifying what individuals, races or species the sound harms or does not harm. Each round, all creatures affected by the tune takes damage equal to one-tenth their total hit points (rounded up, no saving throw) and the caprine itself takes 1d8 [?] hit points of damage. On the final tenth round, any affected creature that is reduced to 0 or negative hit points by the sound of death (excluding the caprine) will automatically die.​

​

If the caprine is forced to stop playing the sound of death before the tune finished on the 10th round, the caprine takes 1d3 Constitution drain damage with no saving throw.​

​

Sound of Death is a sonic death effect.​

I increased the damage the caprine takes from playing the sound since hit points and Con damage are of way less impact in 3E D&D than BECMI.

I'm tempted to add a rule that bards can countersong the tune as it seems appropriate. Maybe:

A bard can use countersong to oppose the sound of death. The bard makes a Perform check against a Perform check made by the caprine. If the bard's Perform check result is equal or higher than the caprine's, creatures protected by their countersong takes no damage from hearing the sound of death (the caprine still takes damage from playing the tune).​

 

[Cleon]

Just noticed a problem:

Vitalize: A caprine with a resonance score of 41 or more can play music that fills living creatures (including the caprine itself) with energy and health. The caprine can play this vitalizing tune for up to 1 round per Hit Dice. Each round it makes a Perform check with a DC of 15 plus +1 per previous check. If it succeeds, it can vitalize a single creature within ## feet and continue playing; if it fails the Perform check the vitalizing tune ends. The target creature can choose to make a Will save (DC 10 plus 1/2 caprine's HD plus caprine's Cha modifier) against the tune, if they succeed they are not vitalized and cannot be targeted again by that vitalizing tune.

We forgot to give a range for Vitalize!

How about 40 feet, as that appears to be the standard range of Resonance powers?

 

[freyar]

Yes to a 40 ft range for Vitalize.

I generally like the Sound of Death draft, but it probably could use some tweaks. For one, it needs the minimum resonance score of 100 listed. I'm ok with the increased damage to the caprine; you're right about the hp costs. I have to think about the countersong. It makes sense other than the fact that the original intent seems to be that the cost to the caprine makes it impossible to resist other than by getting out of range. Actually, that leads to a question: shouldn't we specify that it requires concentration to maintain the tune?

What I don't like is the 10% of hp off of the victims. It's just NOT how 3.X generally works. But I have to think of a good alternative.

 

[Cleon]

Yes to a 40 ft range for Vitalize.

Updated the Resonance Working Draft.

I generally like the Sound of Death draft, but it probably could use some tweaks. For one, it needs the minimum resonance score of 100 listed. I'm ok with the increased damage to the caprine; you're right about the hp costs. I have to think about the countersong. It makes sense other than the fact that the original intent seems to be that the cost to the caprine makes it impossible to resist other than by getting out of range. Actually, that leads to a question: shouldn't we specify that it requires concentration to maintain the tune?

Okay, so that'd give us:

Sound of Death #2: A caprine with a resonance score of 101 or more can play a terrible cacophany on a musical instrument. This heart-wrenching sound lasts 10 rounds and can affect all living creatures within a radius of 40 feet from the caprine who can hear the tune. The caprine can tune a sound of death so it affects or spares particular creatures, specifying what individuals, races or species the sound harms or does not harm. Each round, all creatures affected by the tune takes [damage?] and the caprine itself takes 1d8 [?] hit points of damage. On the final tenth round, any affected creature that is [reduced to 0 or negative hit points?] by the sound of death (excluding the caprine) will automatically die.​

​

If the caprine is forced to stop playing the sound of death before the tune finished on the 10th round, the caprine takes 1d3 Constitution drain damage with no saving throw.​

​

[Bardic countersong?]​

​

Sound of Death is a sonic death effect.​

We need to agree on the damage and what, if any, effect countersong has on it.

 

[freyar]

Also, we need to change the resonance score from 11 to 101.

Let's go with 1d8 hp damage to the caprine, sure. My gut ways negative levels make sense for this, but they have a very different effect than losing hp. I don't know, what if we pick a large randomized amount of hp damage per round for the victims?

 

[Cleon]

Also, we need to change the resonance score from 11 to 101.

Huh, sure I put a 0 in the middle there.

Never mind, easily fixed.

Let's go with 1d8 hp damage to the caprine, sure. My gut ways negative levels make sense for this, but they have a very different effect than losing hp. I don't know, what if we pick a large randomized amount of hp damage per round for the victims?

If we used a large randomized damage then it'd kill cannon fodder in the first round but resilient creatures would take a long time or even (if they were ridiculously hardy) only take a fraction of their hp.

The original intent was clearly it whittles them down slowly and is fatal at the end of the tune, knocking off a tenth of their life per round until the 10 round turn is finished.

 

[freyar]

The problem is that's a very non-3e mechanic, especially the 10% of hp version. Can you think of any spell or effect in 3.X that works like this?

 

[Cleon]

The problem is that's a very non-3e mechanic, especially the 10% of hp version. Can you think of any spell or effect in 3.X that works like this?

Not really, there are a few items/powers/effect that kill a target in a set time (i.e. 1 round, 2 rounds) but most do X damage per Y period until the target dies.

However, I don't consider that prevents us honouring the original's "ten rounds to fatality" progression.

 

[freyar]

I'd prefer to maintain the spirit of it while converting it to the 3e ethos.

How about a compromise? Each victim that stays in range for all 10 rounds dies (or can save to instead take xdX damage?). Any creature that leaves the range instead takes ydY damage for each round it was exposed, but only at the end of the 10th round. If the caprine doesn't finish playing, the second option applies to all victims.

 

[Cleon]

I'd prefer to maintain the spirit of it while converting it to the 3e ethos.

How about a compromise? Each victim that stays in range for all 10 rounds dies (or can save to instead take xdX damage?). Any creature that leaves the range instead takes ydY damage for each round it was exposed, but only at the end of the 10th round. If the caprine doesn't finish playing, the second option applies to all victims.

Hmm, so it only inflicts damage at the end of a minute's playing?

But how often does a 3E combat lasts 10 rounds. It seems more likely the caprine will get kakked before they ever finish playing the tune.

I'd rather it do ongoing damage each round. If you insist on it not being one-tenth of the target's hit points like the original mechanism I'd prefer it doing a fixed or random amount per round and then save-or-die at the end of the 10th round if the target survives.

Never mind, easily fixed.

…once I remember to fix it!

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, so it only inflicts damage at the end of a minute's playing?

But how often does a 3E combat lasts 10 rounds. It seems more likely the caprine will get kakked before they ever finish playing the tune.

I'd rather it do ongoing damage each round. If you insist on it not being one-tenth of the target's hit points like the original mechanism I'd prefer it doing a fixed or random amount per round and then save-or-die at the end of the 10th round if the target survives.

How about it does #d# damage per round but cannot reduce the target below the 0 hit point "dying" level. Then on the end of round 10, targets at 0 hp automatically die but targets with some hit points remaining get a saving throw to avoid death?

 

[freyar]

How about it does #d# damage per round but cannot reduce the target below the 0 hit point "dying" level. Then on the end of round 10, targets at 0 hp automatically die but targets with some hit points remaining get a saving throw to avoid death?

I like that! What do you think for the xdx damage? To have enough resonance notes to use the ability, a caprine would need 18 HD (if I recall the max notes rule correctly), so how about 2d8 per round? That would give it a reasonable chance of killing another caprine of the same level, just as a reference point.

Want to do something funny like give a target a saving throw bonus based on hp remaining or something?

 

[Cleon]

I like that! What do you think for the xdx damage? To have enough resonance notes to use the ability, a caprine would need 18 HD (if I recall the max notes rule correctly), so how about 2d8 per round? That would give it a reasonable chance of killing another caprine of the same level, just as a reference point.

So 90 damage over the entire minute? A caprine of that level with the basic Con 12 would have 18d8+18 Hit Dice for 99 hit points, bur would likely have a better Constitution than that, for another 18 hp per point of Con bonus. It could also receive healing during the 10 rounds. I'd think it'd have fair odds of being at positive HP and making its saving throw when the time comes.

Let's see, the Resonance Working Draft caps Resonance at five times HD plus ability score (CHA or CON), which is…

Hold on, ability score? Should that be ability bonus? One interpretation of that would suggest a very ordinary 8th level caprine would be able to use Sound of Death: 5 × (HD 8 + Cha 13) = 5 × 21 = 105 max resonance. That's assuming the caprine doesn't use its ability advancements on its resonance stats.

Or did we mean ability score plus quintuple HD, which, as you figure above, would require around 18 HD to use Sound of Death: Cha 13 + (5 × HD 18) = 13 + 90 = 103 max resonance.

Perhaps we should rephrase that to be clearer?

How about "The maximum number of resonance notes a caprine can sustain at any one time is equal to its Charisma or Constitution score (whichever is higher), plus 5 notes for each of the caprine's Hit Dice."?

I think we discussed using a formula based on Hit Dice multipled by the number based on the caprine's ability modifier, but decided that would make the influence of the Hit Dice too heavy, since the caprine adds its Cha or Con modifier for every HD. I guess one could express that using "The maximum number of resonance notes a caprine can sustain at any one time is equal to its Hit Dice multiplied by (5 plus its Charisma or Constitution modifier, whichever is higher, minimum multiple is 1)."

For example, with the HD × (5 + ability modifier) formula a sound of death is achievable by a Charisma 13 caprine with 17 Hit Dice: 17 × (5 + 1) = 17 × 6 = 102 max resonance, but a caprine with Charisma 20 only needs 11 Hit Dice: 11 × (5+5) = 11 × 10 = 110 max resonance.

For contrast, a 12 HD Charisma 20 caprine would have an 80 notes max resonance with the "abilityscore+(5×HD) formula" and a 120 notes max resonance with "HD×(5+abilitymod)".

Want to do something funny like give a target a saving throw bonus based on hp remaining or something?

That might give a creature with piles of hit points a large advantage, especially considering such creatures would have good Fortitude saves in the first place.

A more serious restriction is that, as written, the targets must remain within 40 feet of the caprine for the entire 10 round music session to risk death from the sound.

That seems unlikely. So I'm thinking maybe a target must be within 40 feet to start the deadly resonance, but after that it merely needs to be within earshot of the caprine for the deadly resonances to continue. Maybe a 300 ft. spread like the Captivating Song of a Harpy?

Sound of Death #3: A caprine with a resonance score of 101 or more can play a terrible cacophany on a musical instrument that lasts 10 rounds. This heart-wrenching sound starts harmful vibrations in any living creature who hears the tune and is within 40 feet of the caprine when it starts to play. The caprine can tune sound of death so it affects or spares particular creatures, specifying what individuals, races or species the sound harms or does not harm. At the end of each round, the caprine takes 1d8 [?] hit points of damage, and all creatures affected by the sound's initial vibrations that are within earshot of the tune (a 300 ft. spread) take #d# damage [?]. However, this damage cannot reduce the affected creature below 0 hit points. At the end of the final tenth round, all creatures affected by sound of death (apart from the caprine) will automatically die (no save) if they are at 0 or negative hit points, or die if they fail a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 plus half the caprine's HD plus its Charisma modifier) if they have positive hit points.​

​

If the caprine is forced to stop playing the sound of death before the tune finished on the 10th round, the caprine takes 1d3 Constitution drain damage with no saving throw.​

​

[Bardic countersong?]​

​

Sound of Death is a sonic death effect.​

What action does the caprine need to use to continue playing the sound? If it's a standard action, that's a crippling problem for high-level combat, so I'm thinking maybe we should make it a swift or free action to continue the tune once it's begun (which'd presumably require a standard action).

Plus there's the "what can the Bard do" question.

 

[Cleon]

Also, should we rename the resonance power Summon Fairy Folk to Summon Sylvan Folk since we allow it to summon Sylvan creatures that aren't Fey?

 

[freyar]

On the last question, "Sylvan" works for me.

I like "The maximum number of resonance notes a caprine can sustain at any one time is equal to its Charisma or Constitution score (whichever is higher), plus 5 notes for each of the caprine's Hit Dice."

And I can go with Sound of Death #3. Are you ok with 1d8 hp damage to the caprine and 2d8 to victims per round? The example of killing another caprine was just a rough estimate, and I still think there's enough of a chance. I don't think it necessarily needs to be able to kill another 18HD critter that easily.

 

[Cleon]

On the last question, "Sylvan" works for me.

Agreed.

I like "The maximum number of resonance notes a caprine can sustain at any one time is equal to its Charisma or Constitution score (whichever is higher), plus 5 notes for each of the caprine's Hit Dice."

Updated the Resonance Working Draft.

And I can go with Sound of Death #3. Are you ok with 1d8 hp damage to the caprine and 2d8 to victims per round? The example of killing another caprine was just a rough estimate, and I still think there's enough of a chance. I don't think it necessarily needs to be able to kill another 18HD critter that easily.

Yeah, I can go along with that.

We still need to state what action the Caprine needs to spend to start and sustain the tune.

I'm thinking it'd be a standard action to start a tune, but either a swift action or free action to continue playing.

If it had to do a standard action every round for 10 rounds that makes it VERY costly. There's a lot of other things an 18 HD creature could probably do over a minute that'd cause more than 2d8 damage to its opponents.

Besides, the way 3E combats go, a caprine would have to be very lucky to keep its tune going for 10 rounds without being interrupted.

Speaking of interruptions, what would do that? Is it like a spell that requires Concentration, or does the caprine merely have to remain conscious and capable of holding its musical instrument to continue making the deadly sound?