Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[Aspect of BOZ]

OK, did a bit of thinking.

For Dex, we should give it 10. that way, it has no penalty on Init, AC or Ref saves. It’s because of their choice not to move that will fail Ref saves for it, not an inability to move. if you really want to be picky about it, we can go this route and compromise: it has a Dex of 10, but is always considered helpless against attacks that require a Ref save.

SQ that enables a GP to grants its malices skill ranks and feats: yes! It's kind of like a familiar but in reverse, eh?

Shade suggested looking at the presence/whisps conversion for ideas, which I have not yet done.

Shade: where did you get Death’s Grace and Unholy Toughness from? I’ll take those.

How’s this?:
Shriek of Fear (Su): At the moment of a gray philosopher’s death, it unleashes a horrifying shriek. Living creatures within 60 feet must succeed on a DC X Will save or take X points of Dexterity damage and be shaken. The shaken effect can be removed from a creature with a remove fear or remove curse spell. The save DC is Charisma-based.

 

[Mortis]

For Dex, we should give it 10. that way, it has no penalty on Init, AC or Ref saves. It’s because of their choice not to move that will fail Ref saves for it, not an inability to move. if you really want to be picky about it, we can go this route and compromise: it has a Dex of 10, but is always considered helpless against attacks that require a Ref save.

I guess I can live with Dex 10 with the stipulation that it is considered helpless for Reflex saves.

SQ that enables a GP to grants its malices skill ranks and feats: yes! It's kind of like a familiar but in reverse, eh?

Sort of Also Add that the Malice uses the Philosopher's BAB (it solves the problem of a 1HD creature attacking as a 9HD creature.

Shade suggested looking at the presence/whisps conversion for ideas, which I have not yet done.

Neither had I until now. Although they're a similar concept, I don't see anything that we need to borrow.

How’s this?:
Shriek of Fear (Su): At the moment of a gray philosopher’s death, it unleashes a horrifying shriek. Living creatures within 60 feet must succeed on a DC X Will save or take X points of Dexterity damage and be shaken. The shaken effect can be removed from a creature with a remove fear or remove curse spell. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Looks go One thing I'd change is replacing Dex damage with Dex drain. Stat loss in BD&D was rather more permanent than 3.x. I also think that a permanent loss is more fitting 'reminder' of the philosopher' which hasn't really got much else going for it.

Edited Stats - Changed Dex and added Shriek of Fear.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

I'm fine with all that's been posted since my last post.

Shade: where did you get Death’s Grace and Unholy Toughness from? I’ll take those.

MMIII, and used with undead in several other places since. They should be used more often, and retroactively applied to some of the MM undead, IMHO.

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

I guess I can live with Dex 10 with the stipulation that it is considered helpless for Reflex saves.

great! we can add to that, or make a separate ability, that since they always remain motionless they cannot be moved, nor compelled or controlled to take any actions.

Sort of Also Add that the Malice uses the Philosopher's BAB (it solves the problem of a 1HD creature attacking as a 9HD creature.

indeed. do we have a precedent to follow, for the format of such? also, i don't think there should be a combat ability tied to their creation. first of all, they are created unconsciously. secondly, they are only created over a course of years. so never in an encounter (well, almost never, if by rare circumstance) will a malice be created during a combat. we can describe their creation in the text freely, however.


also, we made a goof earlier. they should not have turn resistance. each of its sources clearly state that the philosopher cannot be turned at all (which makes a lot of sense). what other creatures have this ability, so that we may copy?

 

[BOZ]

while waiting for a response, i posted what i have so far in homebrews.

 

[Mortis]

great! we can add to that, or make a separate ability, that since they always remain motionless they cannot be moved, nor compelled or controlled to take any actions.

I've steered clear of the conversion Jamie did on WotC Mystara lest it influence me too greatly but he gave it a Passivity ability. After looking though it is quite similar, but I guess we're both working from the same source material.

indeed. do we have a precedent to follow, for the format of such?

Doesn't a familiar use its masters BAB? Checks SRD - yep.

also, i don't think there should be a combat ability tied to their creation. first of all, they are created unconsciously. secondly, they are only created over a course of years. so never in an encounter (well, almost never, if by rare circumstance) will a malice be created during a combat. we can describe their creation in the text freely, however.

Perhaps it could also create a malice when it is struck and fails a Concentration check, as one of its evil thoughts escape?

also, we made a goof earlier. they should not have turn resistance. each of its sources clearly state that the philosopher cannot be turned at all (which makes a lot of sense). what other creatures have this ability, so that we may copy?

The Tomb Warden PrC from Libris Mortis has a class feature 'Turn Immunity', good enough?

Regards
Mortis

 

[Shade]

also, we made a goof earlier. they should not have turn resistance. each of its sources clearly state that the philosopher cannot be turned at all (which makes a lot of sense). what other creatures have this ability, so that we may copy?

From MMII:

Turn Immunity (Ex): A death knight cannot be turned. It can be banished with holy word, however, just as if it were an evil outsider. (The banished death knight returns to the plane of the evil god it serves).

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

We can probably use that just fine. The holy word part is probably irrelevant though. should it be a separate ability, or should we fold it into this:

Motionless (Ex): A gray philosopher cannot be moved by any means. It cannot be compelled or forced to take any actions by any effect. It is considered helpless against any effect that requires a Reflex save.
(A gray philosopher cannot be turned.)

How about:
“Attack as Master” (Ex): A malice uses its gray philosopher’s base attack bonus. A malice uses its own Dexterity modifier on attack rolls with its natural weapons.

Perhaps it could also create a malice when it is struck and fails a Concentration check, as one of its evil thoughts escape?

Hmm, not sure if I like that one…

 

[Shade]

I'd keep turn immunity as a separate ability. I'm pretty confident I've seen it on other creatures (and without the holy word part), but couldn't find one earlier.

Motionless looks fine.

I'm not sure about "Attack as Master"...are the malices going to be a separate creature, or just listed as a part of the philosopher's combat entry?

 

[Mortis]

This is the Turn Immunity ability from the Tome Warden PrC.

Turn Immunity (Ex): As long as it is within the tomb, graveyard, or similar resting place that it protects, a tomb warden is immune to turning or rebuking attempts. It can still be bolstered as normal.

I'm not sure about "Attack as Master"...are the malices going to be a separate creature, or just listed as a part of the philosopher's combat entry?

I thought that we were going down the seperate creature route.

Hmm, not sure if I like that one…

That's OK - just an idea.

Regards
Mortis