Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

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Mortis said:
But the malices will have their own CR. ;)

True, which is another reason I'm not convinced that the malices should be separate creatures. :\

Mortis said:
Either is fine by me, although I'd tend to go for 12+CR. :)

If the CR includes the malices, I'll buy that. With separate CRs, I'd peg the philosopher as CR 2. It can't cause any harm until its death, after all.
 

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Shade said:
True, which is another reason I'm not convinced that the malices should be separate creatures. :\
There are benefits (as well as problems) for having malices as separate creatures. For example as a separate creature a malice may be turned. If it was a special attack of the grey philosopher then obviously it couldn't be turned.

If the CR includes the malices, I'll buy that. With separate CRs, I'd peg the philosopher as CR 2. It can't cause any harm until its death, after all.
Yeah you posted as I was editing my post, I suggested CR 1-2. :)

Regards
Mortis
 

Mortis said:
There are benefits (as well as problems) for having malices as separate creatures. For example as a separate creature a malice may be turned. If it was a special attack of the grey philosopher then obviously it couldn't be turned.

Of course, we could state that they can be turned within the "create malice" ability.

Mortis said:
Yeah you posted as I was editing my post, I suggested CR 1-2. :)

Heh. Great minds think alike. ;)
 

Shade said:
Of course, we could state that they can be turned within the "create malice" ability.
Another one would be that as separate creatures, malices can be attacked and destroyed. Yes we could include this as well as other issues in the 'create malice' but it could end up nearly as long as creature entry itself. :D

Heh. Great minds think alike. ;)
Yeah as you said, until it dies its no threat at all.

Regards
Mortis
 

and even then, the effect it causes is not that big of a deal since the combat is over -unless the PCs are likely to get into another fight quickly, they will probably get a chance to recover before harm befalls them. :)

OK, let's leave the CR and SR alone for now.

how about we move on to the stats for a malice?
 


first of all, the text for the GP:

This robed figure is seated and appears deep in thought. Its form is smoky-gray and insubstantial. A palpable aura of hatred seems to emanate from the otherwise oblivious being.

The gray philosopher is an undead spirit of an evil cleric that died with some important unresolved philosophical deliberations in mind. A gray philosopher does nothing but ponder these mysterious weighty matters, always seeming unable to reach a conclusion.

A gray philosopher would be otherwise harmless if not for its malices. These wispy shapes are the animated evil thoughts of the gray philosopher that have taken on a substance and will of their own. A gray philosopher begins its existence with X malices, and manifests 2d4 more for each century of its existence. It does not control the malices per se, so much as they are extensions of itself and always act in the philosopher’s best interest. A gray philosopher, however, does not even seem to be aware of its own malices.

A gray philosopher is most commonly found in ruined or abandoned buildings (particularly temples, libraries, and monasteries), dungeons, tombs, crypts, graveyards, and similar desolate places. Sages theorize that if a gray philosopher were ever able to solve the dilemmas in its own mind, it would be able to transcend the mortal plane and become a powerful immortal being; undoubtedly, this process could easily take millennia.

COMBAT
A gray philosopher has no interest in its surroundings and will neither attack nor defend itself. Even attacks that harm a gray philosopher will not break its concentration.

At its moment of destruction, a gray philosopher looks up with an expression of malicious enlightenment, vanishing with a lingering shriek of evil delight.
 

and with that out of the way...

Mystara Monstrous Compendium stat block:
Malice
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any ruins
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Cluster
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Night
DIET: None
INTELLIGENCE: Non- (0)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Neutral evil
NO. APPEARING: Special
ARMOR CLASS: 1
MOVEMENT: 15
HIT DICE: 1
THAC0: 11
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d10, 1d8, or 1d6
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Attack as 9 HD creature
SPECIAL DEFENCES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: T (1'-2' long)
MORALE: Champion (15)
XP VALUE: 120


Selected text from
AC9:
These animated thoughts, known as malices, appear as small, luminous, translucent whisps with vaguely human faces, gaping maws and spindly, clawed hands. They fly through the air,constantly searching for victims on which to vent their spite. Malices do not stray more than 100 feet from their philosopher, but are able to squeeze through the narrowest of gaps in their wanderings. A grey philosopher typically creates 2-8 malices for each century of its deliberations. Clerics turn malices as spectres.

Malices have the same Hit Rolls as a 9 Hit Dice creature, and the amount of damage done depends on the alignment of the victim: 1d6 for chaotic characters, 1d8 for neutrals and 1d10 for lawfuls.

All malices vanish instantly when the philosopher is destroyed.


DMR2:
These animated thoughts, known as malices, appear as small, luminous, translucent wisps with vaguely human faces, gaping maws, and spindly, clawed hands. They fly through the air, constantly searching for victims on which to vent their petty, but eternal, spite. Malices do not stray more than 100 feet from their philosopher, but are able to squeeze through the narrowest of gaps in their wanderings. A gray philosopher typically creates 2d4 malices for each century of its deliberations. Clerics turn malices as spectres.

Malices have the same attack rolls as a 9 Hit Dice creature, and the amount of damage done depends on the alignment of the victim: 1d6 points of damage for chaotic characters, 1d8 for neutral characters and 1d10 for lawful characters.

All malices vanish instantly when the philosopher is destroyed.

Both the philosopher and the malices are immune to mind-affecting magic (cham, phantasmal force, etc.) and to attacks from nonmagical weapons.


And MMC:
Flying through the air surrounding the philosopher are a number of tiny, luminous, wispy creatures known as malices. They have vaguely human faces, gaping maws, and spindly, clawed hands. These vindictive creatures are actually the philosopher's evil thoughts, which have taken on substance and a will of their own.

Both the philosopher and its malices are immune to mind-affecting magic (charm, phantasmal force, etc.) and to attacks from nonmagical weapons.

Unlike the philosopher, malices constantly search for victims on which to vent their petty but eternal spite. Malices do not stray more than 100 feet from their philosopher but may pass through the narrowest of openings in their ceaseless flight.

When they find a victim, the malices immediately launch themselves at it. The creatures attack as 9 Hit Dice monsters, and the amount of damage their vicious bite inflicts depends on the victim's alignment: 1d10 for good characters (whom the malices especially despise), 1d8 for neutral characters, and 1d6 points of damage for evil characters. Clerics can turn malices as spectres. A malice normally attacks until destroyed or turned. However, all these creatures vanish instantly if their philosopher is destroyed.


Mortis got us started on the stat block:
Malice
Tiny Undead (Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 1d12 (6 hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed : 0 ft. (0 squares)
Armor Class: X (+X Dex), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-
Attack: X
Full Attack: X
Space/Reach: 2 1/2 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +X, Ref +X, Will +X
Abilities: Str -, Dex X, Con -, Int X, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: X
Feats: 1
Environment: X
Organization: X
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: None
Alignment: X
Advancement: X
Level Adjustment: -

Mortis said:
Again some suggestions regarding the stats

Attack and Full Attack: Although the previous versions state that the Malice attacks as a 9HD creature I think that that is based on the HD of the Gray Philosopher that created it. So I would suggest a Special Quality that states that the Malice uses the BAB of the Gray Philosopher which generated it.

Saves: The base saves are

Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2

Adding the modifiers from the abilities I suggest below we get

Fort +0, Ref +5, Will +2

Abilities: Again as an incorporeal undead the malice gets no Str or Con score.

Dex I suggest should be rather high, I suggest 20.

Int as given by previous editions would be 0

Wis as for other mindless undead should be 10

Cha I would go for something like 13-14

Skills: As a mindless undead the malice wouldn't get any skills. Maybe we could give them a proportion of the points that the Gray Philosopher should have?

Feats: A malice gets 1 feat - I would suggest Weapon Finesse.

Environment and Organization: Same as the Gray Philosopher.

Alignment: Again 2ed gives it as neutral evil which I could accept. but I would prefer to give it chaotic evil as a nice counterpoint to (at least as I suggested) the Gray Philosopher's lawful nature.
 

Going back to the gray philosopher briefly. :)

Dex damage of the Dying Shriek - Damage or Drain? I prefer Drain.

And how about this?

Unwavering Concentration (Ex): Whilst a gray philosopher is contemplating its unresolved problem it pays no attention to what is going on around it. As such, it is immune to turning or rebuking attempts, automatically fails Reflex saves and automatically makes any Concentration checks.

Back to the malice

Feats: I realised after suggesting Weapon Finesse that the malice doesn't qualify for it, lacking the +1 BAB so if we give it the feat it will have to be as a bonus.

A side effect of giving it Weapon Finesse with it's (suggested) Dex 20 means an attack bonus of +5, quite similar to a 9HD undead! :)

Other than that, how about Flyby Attack?

Regards
Mortis
 
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