Converting Planescape monsters

[Cleon]

Just noticed a couple of errors in the the Ash Quasi-Elemental Working Draft. Firstly, I'd typoed +37 instead of +27 in the Monolith attack line, which I've fixed.

Secondly, the Small size Ash Quasi has Power Attack but does not meet the Strength 13+ prerequisite as it only has Str 12.

The simple way to fix that is to give them all a +1 Str, -1 Con tweak, which doesn't change any of their stats but makes the Power Attack rules-legal.

 

[freyar]

I'm happy enough with your Str +1, Con -1 for the Ash quasis. Good thing they all have even Str to start with!

Back to the Dust: darkvision, DR, elemental traits, negative adaptation look good. I don't see evidence for energy immunities or vulnerabilities in the original monster.

 

[Cleon]

I'm happy enough with your Str +1, Con -1 for the Ash quasis. Good thing they all have even Str to start with!

I've updated the Ash Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

Back to the Dust: darkvision, DR, elemental traits, negative adaptation look good. I don't see evidence for energy immunities or vulnerabilities in the original monster.

There's no mention of any vulnerabilities or weaknesses to a particular element in the original, so I agree with the above changes.

Now for the next question - do they have good Ref saves or Fort saves?

Since they can become swirling storms of dust, I'm thinking Reflex. I expect the Vacuum Quasi will also be Reflex and the Salt Quasi will be Fort, which'll give us two of each save.

 

[freyar]

I'll take good Ref saves for $100, Alex.

Is speed 50ft the correct conversion?

The skills and feats look reasonable, I think. Do you want to fiddle with them at all?

 

[Cleon]

I'll take good Ref saves for $100, Alex.

Fine by me!

Is speed 50ft the correct conversion?

I think that was a carry over from a copy-and-paste.

The original monster has Move: 12, or standard human speed, the same as the Ash Quasi-Elemental.

We gave it speeds of 50 ft. and 60 ft. to match the Fire Elemental, but frankly I'd rather give both the Dust and the Ash Quasis speeds of 30 ft. and 40 ft. to be closer to the original.

The skills and feats look reasonable, I think. Do you want to fiddle with them at all?

The skills are fine by me as-is, but I think the feats need changing.

For a start, I'd give it Weapon Focus (slam) instead of Power Attack as its first feat, which means it'll need something else as its second feat instead of Cleave.

Basically, it's a Dex-based melee combatant rather than a Str-based, so we should have Combat Reflexes and Weapon Finesse near the start of its feat chain and leave Power Attack and Cleave towards the end.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, 30 ft and 40 ft speeds sound better for both ash and dust.

You're right, it doesn't even qualify for Power Attack at Small size. Hmm, how about giving it feats (in order that it gets them) as follows?

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Imp Initiative, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Snatch

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, 30 ft and 40 ft speeds sound better for both ash and dust.

Updating the Ash Quasi-Elemental Working Draft and the Dust Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

You're right, it doesn't even qualify for Power Attack at Small size. Hmm, how about giving it feats (in order that it gets them) as follows?

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Imp Initiative, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Snatch

You've got Great Cleave on that list but not the prerequisites feat of Cleave.

I'd give it Improved Natural Attack (slam) at Monolith size like all the regular Elemental Monoliths get.

Snatch seems rather superfluous for a creature with an Engulf attack.

How about Improved Sunder instead of Bull Rush? I think these things would rather destroy an opponent's stuff them push them away.

 

[freyar]

Oops, forgot that prereq.

We can drop Snatch in favor of something else, but we need Imp Bull Rush if we're keeping Awesome Blow, which I always like for big monsters. I'm also not very fond of Imp Natural Attack, as we're allowed to set the damage values as we like --- since we're giving different stat blocks, we're not set to the size advancement rules for damage. Here are three alternatives, one with Cleave/Great Cleave and two without:

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Cleave, Imp Initiative, Great Cleave, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Imp Initiative, Imp Bull Rush, Imp Sunder, Awesome Blow, Imp Natural Attack (slam)

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Imp Initiative, Imp Sunder, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Dire Charge

 

[Cleon]

Oops, forgot that prereq.

We can drop Snatch in favor of something else, but we need Imp Bull Rush if we're keeping Awesome Blow, which I always like for big monsters. I'm also not very fond of Imp Natural Attack, as we're allowed to set the damage values as we like --- since we're giving different stat blocks, we're not set to the size advancement rules for damage. Here are three alternatives, one with Cleave/Great Cleave and two without:

I'm not sure it'd have much use of Awesome Blow, since its signature attack involves engulfing opponents in its body rather that hurling them away, but I'd be OK including it if you like it.

Normally I'd agree with you on the Improved Natural Attack, but in this case it's a legacy issue - all the officially published Elemental Monoliths have the feat, so I think we should give it to the Quasi Monoliths too, like we already have for the the Dust Quasi.

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Cleave, Imp Initiative, Great Cleave, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Imp Initiative, Imp Bull Rush, Imp Sunder, Awesome Blow, Imp Natural Attack (slam)

Weapon Focus (slam), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Imp Initiative, Imp Sunder, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Dire Charge

The Weapon Finesse shouldn't kick in until Large size, since that's when the Dust Quasi's Dex bonus starts to be higher than its Str bonus.

Let's see, the SRD Earth Elemental goes:

Small (1): Power Attack
Medium (2): +Cleave
Large (3): +Great Cleave
Huge (6): +Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Iron Will
Greater (8): +Improved Sunder, Alertness
Elder (9): +Improved Critical (slam)
Monolith (13): +Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Toughness, Weapon Focus (slam)

If we kept the Alertness, Iron Will, Improved Bull Rush, Critical and Sunder in the same size categories, that means we'd have to put the Power Attack in Medium (since it's Small Strength is too low to match the prereq).

It might be better to move the Awesome Blow and its prereqs to a later size, so we can space out the "speedy" type feats in front of it.

We've already decided to move Weapon Focus and Finesse to near the front, and I'd like to keep Imp Natural Attack were it is.

Come to think of it, if we're making this "Ref strong" like an Air or Fire Elemental, shouldn't its Weapon Finesse and Improved Initiative be bonus feats like the SRD Air and Fire (except for the Monolith).

Putting that together, I'd go for the following:

Dust Quasi
Small (1): Improved Initiative (B), Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Medium (2): +Power Attack
Large (3): +Combat Reflexes
Huge (5): +Cleave, Iron Will
Greater (7): +Alertness, Improved Bull Rush
Elder (9): +Awesome Blow, Improved Critical (slam)
Monolith (13): +Improved Natural Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder, Improved Initiative

 

[freyar]

That'll work well enough. And I believe we already agreed to leave skills as-is. We also agreed to leave darkvision, DR, elemental traits, negative adaptation as they are but drop vulnerabilities and immunities.

For CR, I think I'd go CR 1, 2 (shouldn't that be 18 hp, BTW?), 4,...

You know, I'm going to stop, as the HD on these are a bit low compared to normal elementals, which I think should reduce the CR. And the Ash quasis have the same issues. Should we revisit CR of that, also? (Another thing: the Large Ash should have 6d8+24 hp.)