Converting Planescape monsters

[Cleon]

Here's a thought: keep (possibly adjust) deflection, add invisibility, drop NA. It makes some sense given that they're bags of force.

That's a good idea.

We could combine the NA and current deflection to get the new deflection bonus, but I'd rather lower the deflection a bit, especially of the weaker sizes - invisibility isn't of much effect in typical high-level play, when any decent party will be able to see invisible.

 

[freyar]

I could see dropping NA and reducing deflection by 1 or maybe 2 at the smaller sizes. Any more, and they'll have lower AC than the fire elemental (at those sizes), which I don't think is really the intent.

 

[Cleon]

I could see dropping NA and reducing deflection by 1 or maybe 2 at the smaller sizes. Any more, and they'll have lower AC than the fire elemental (at those sizes), which I don't think is really the intent.

They'll still have better touch and flat-footed ACs though, and at low levels the PCs are a lot less likely to have see invisibility.

 

[freyar]

Well, is no NA and deflection -2 acceptable?

 

[Cleon]

Well, is no NA and deflection -2 acceptable?

Let's have a look at the numbers...

If we just convert the NA to deflection we'd get:

[TABLE="width: 500"] [TR] [TD]Size[/TD] [TD]Vacuum #1[/TD] [TD]Current Vacuum[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [TD]19 (+1 size, +3 Dex,
+5 deflection)[/TD] [TD]19 (+1 size, +3 Dex,
+3 NA, +2 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]20 (+5 Dex,
+5 deflection)[/TD] [TD]20 (+5 Dex, +3 NA,
+2 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [TD]22 (–1 size, +7 Dex,
+6 deflection)[/TD] [TD]22 (–1 size, +7 Dex,
+3 NA, +3 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [TD]23 (–2 size, +9 Dex,
+6 deflection)[/TD] [TD]23 (–2 size, +9 Dex,
+3 NA, +3 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Greater[/TD] [TD]28 (–2 size, +10 Dex,
+10 deflection)[/TD] [TD]28 (–2 size, +10 Dex,
+6 NA, +4 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Elder[/TD] [TD]29 (–2 size, +11 Dex,
+10 deflection)[/TD] [TD]29 (–2 size, +11 Dex,
+6 NA, +4 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Monolith[/TD] [TD]33 (–4 size, +11 Dex,
+16 deflection)[/TD] [TD]33 (–4 size, +11 Dex,
+10 NA, +6 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] If we added a -2 adjustment to the Deflection that'd make the AC pretty much the same as an Air Elemental, except with deflection instead of NA.

If we just convert the NA to deflection we'd get:

[TABLE="width: 500"] [TR] [TD]Size[/TD] [TD]Vacuum #1[/TD] [TD]Vacuum #2 (with -2 AC)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [TD]19 (+1 size, +3 Dex,
+5 deflection)[/TD] [TD]17 (+1 size, +3 Dex,
+3 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]20 (+5 Dex,
+5 deflection)[/TD] [TD]18 (+5 Dex,
+3 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [TD]22 (–1 size, +7 Dex,
+6 deflection)[/TD] [TD]20 (–1 size, +7 Dex,
+4 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [TD]23 (–2 size, +9 Dex,
+6 deflection)[/TD] [TD]21 (–2 size, +9 Dex,
+4 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Greater[/TD] [TD]28 (–2 size, +10 Dex,
+10 deflection)[/TD] [TD]26 (–2 size, +10 Dex,
+8 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Elder[/TD] [TD]29 (–2 size, +11 Dex,
+10 deflection)[/TD] [TD]27 (–2 size, +11 Dex,
+8 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Monolith[/TD] [TD]33 (–4 size, +11 Dex,
+16 deflection)[/TD] [TD]31 (–4 size, +11 Dex,
+14 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Hmm... I still like the higher ACs for the big versions and the lower ACs for the smaller ones. I'd lean towards a gradual transition from one to t'other, e.g.:

[TABLE="width: 500"] [TR] [TD]Size[/TD] [TD]Vacuum #3[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [TD]17 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]19 (+5 Dex, +4 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [TD]21 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +5 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [TD]23 (–2 size, +9 Dex, +6 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Greater[/TD] [TD]28 (–2 size, +10 Dex, +10 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Elder[/TD] [TD]29 (–2 size, +11 Dex, +10 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Monolith[/TD] [TD]33 (–4 size, +11 Dex, +16 deflection)[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] What thinks thee?

 

[freyar]

No, I didn't mean convert the NA to deflection, I meant discard NA entirely. Actually, how did you calculate deflection in the first place? Seems like it ought to be tied to Con in some way.

 

[Cleon]

No, I didn't mean convert the NA to deflection, I meant discard NA entirely. Actually, how did you calculate deflection in the first place? Seems like it ought to be tied to Con in some way.

It was an arbitrary size-based progression, with a bump up at the Huge/Greater divide.

 

[freyar]

Well, I guess I'm ok with keeping deflection as is or else going with the Con bonus for it. But are you ok with just dropping the NA?

 

[Cleon]

Well, I guess I'm ok with keeping deflection as is or else going with the Con bonus for it. But are you ok with just dropping the NA?

So just to be clear, you're suggesting:

Small: 16 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +2 deflection)
Medium: 17 (+5 Dex, +2 deflection)
Large: 19 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +3 deflection)
Huge: 20 (–2 size, +9 Dex, +3 deflection)
Greater: 22 (–2 size, +10 Dex, +4 deflection)
Elder: 23 (–2 size, +11 Dex, +4 deflection)
Monolith: 23 (–4 size, +11 Dex, +6 deflection)

I'm not keen on that, since the higher-grade Vacuum's will likely end out much easier to hit than an equivalent Fire or Air Elemental, since it's safe to assume that most mid-to-high level parties have see invisible to cancel out the 50% miss chance of them being transparent.

 

[freyar]

It's not that far off from other elementals, though. We could tweak just a bit, if you like, but I don't think they should be several AC points higher than the highest SRD elementals. I suppose I'd be willing to add +1 to deflection at the smaller sizes and +2 or +3 max to the larger sizes.