Converting Planescape monsters

While different fuels burn at different temperatures, you're getting away from the rules in the control flames power, which ties damage to size. You know, in the RAW, mundane fire is mundane fire. As for fires coming in size categories: all objects, including fires, fit in standard size categories. Plus, I think it's reasonable that the lingering fire from a direct hit of alchemist's fire is Tiny. I just think that using sizes uses the rules from control flames without making people look the rules up.

Oh right, I think I follow your objection now.

The problem I have with just saying "the quasielemental extinguished any fire with a size smaller than itself" without quoting the control flames power is that power is the only bit of the RAW I can see that defines fire categories so what will the DM do if they don't know where that particular rule is?

Besides, the control flame sizes do not match up with monster sizes, which makes them less intuitive to use - an alchemist's fire splash covers a circle 10 feet across, which is much bigger than the 5 ft square space of a Colossal control flame, while the 1 point of fire damage it does is equal to a Fine control flame. Which size is it? I suppose the flask could be splashing dozens of fine-sized flames about...

Basically, I'm proposing is I'd have the Elemental extinguish fires that do not do more damage than its cold damage - and refer to the control flames power for typical damages for different sorts of fires. That seems more straightforward that messing about with size categories.

Alternatively, we could have it roll its "chilling damage" and extinguish any fire that rolls a lower fire damage that round, which'd add more randomness to the results.
 

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The splash from alchemist's fire is an instantaneous effect, not a burning flame or fire that can be extinguished. I think my point is to decouple the extinguishment from control flames and just use normal size categories. While the space is wonky in control flames, I don't think the size necessarily is --- a large campfire really is about the size of a usual Small object, for example.

Although at this point, I'm about ready to drop the "extinguishes fires" effect entirely. :erm:
 

The splash from alchemist's fire is an instantaneous effect, not a burning flame or fire that can be extinguished. I think my point is to decouple the extinguishment from control flames and just use normal size categories. While the space is wonky in control flames, I don't think the size necessarily is --- a large campfire really is about the size of a usual Small object, for example.

Although at this point, I'm about ready to drop the "extinguishes fires" effect entirely. :erm:

Before we start going around in circles, how about you or I write up a proposal for an "Extinguish" SA so we actually have something to talk about.
 

Okedoke. But, like I said, I'd be willing to drop this effect.

Chilling Blast (Su): The ash quasi-elemental can create a cone-shaped blast of cold energy as a standard action, which damages all creatures in the area of effect (Reflex save for half damage). The chilling blast extinguishes any mundane fire up to two size categories smaller than the ash quasi-elemental that is contained within the blast's area of effect.

Small: 10 ft. range, 1d6 hp, DC X
Medium: 20 ft. range, 1d8 hp, DC X
Large: 40 ft. range, 2d6 hp, DC X
Huge: 60 ft. range, 2d8 hp, DC X
Greater: 60 ft. range, 3d6 hp, DC X
Elder: 60 ft. range, 3d8 hp, DC X
Monolith: 80 ft. range, 4d6 hp, DC X
 

Okedoke. But, like I said, I'd be willing to drop this effect.

Chilling Blast (Su): The ash quasi-elemental can create a cone-shaped blast of cold energy as a standard action, which damages all creatures in the area of effect (Reflex save for half damage). The chilling blast extinguishes any mundane fire up to two size categories smaller than the ash quasi-elemental that is contained within the blast's area of effect.

Small: 10 ft. range, 1d6 hp, DC X
Medium: 20 ft. range, 1d8 hp, DC X
Large: 40 ft. range, 2d6 hp, DC X
Huge: 60 ft. range, 2d8 hp, DC X
Greater: 60 ft. range, 3d6 hp, DC X
Elder: 60 ft. range, 3d8 hp, DC X
Monolith: 80 ft. range, 4d6 hp, DC X

But that doesn't explicate what the fire's "size category" is, which was my original objection!

Also, the Cold Aura ought to extinguish fires as well.

For example:

Chilling Aura (Su): An ash quasi-elemental radiates an aura of cold energy that does cold damage every round to all targets within range. This aura extinguishes mundane fires up to three size categories smaller than the quasi-elemental. For further information on fire sizes, see the control flames psionic power.

Small: 5 ft. range, 1d3 hp, extinguishes tindertwigs
Medium: 10 ft. range, 1d4 hp, extinguishes torches
Large 20 ft. range, 1d6 hp, extinguishes small campfires
Huge 30 ft. range, 1d8 hp, extinguishes large campfires
Greater 30 ft. range, 1d10 hp, extinguishes large campfires
Elder 30 ft. range, 1d12 hp, extinguishes large campfires
Monolith 40 ft. range, 2d6 hp, extinguishes forges

Chilling Blast (Su): The ash quasi-elemental can create a cone-shaped blast of cold energy as a standard action, which damages all targets in the area of effect (Reflex save for half damage). This blast extinguishes mundane fires up to two size categories smaller than the quasi-elemental. For further information on fire sizes, see the control flames psionic power.

Small: 10 ft. range, 1d6 hp, DC, extinguishes torches
Medium: 20 ft. range, 1d8 hp, DC, extinguishes small campfires
Large: 40 ft. range, 2d6 hp, DC X, extinguishes large campfires
Huge: 60 ft. range, 2d8 hp, DC X, extinguishes forges
Greater: 60 ft. range, 3d6 hp, DC X, extinguishes forges
Elder: 60 ft. range, 3d8 hp, DC X, extinguishes forges
Monolith: 80 ft. range, 4d6 hp, DC X, extinguishes bonfires

I wondered whether it might be easier having a separate Extinguish ability, but I think it's better as part of the chilling.

The extinguishing seems a bit weak for Greater & Monolith sizes, so I'd like them to "step up" one:

It'll also be a lot easier to read as a table.

Revision One:

Chilling Aura (Su): An ash quasi-elemental radiates an aura of cold energy that does cold damage every round to all targets within range. This aura extinguishes mundane fires up to three size categories smaller than the quasi-elemental. For further information on fire sizes, see the control flames psionic power.

Size of Ash
Quasi-Elemental

Aura
Radius

Cold
Damage

Maximum size
of extinguished fire

Small
5 ft.
1d3
Fine fire (e.g. tindertwig)
Medium
10 ft.
1d4
Diminutive fire (e.g. torch)
Large
20 ft.
1d6
Tiny fire (e.g. small campfire)
Huge
30 ft.
1d8
Small fire (e.g. large campfire)
Greater
30 ft.
1d10
Small fire (e.g. large campfire)
Elder
30 ft.
1d12
Medium fire (e.g. forge)
Monolith
40 ft.
2d6
Large fire (e.g. bonfire)

Chilling Blast (Su): The ash quasi-elemental can create a cone-shaped blast of cold energy as a standard action, which damages all targets in the area of effect (Reflex save for half damage). This blast extinguishes mundane fires up to two size categories smaller than the quasi-elemental. For further information on fire sizes, see the control flames psionic power.

Size of Ash
Quasi-Elemental

Cone
Range

Cold
Damage

Reflex
Save

Maximum size
of extinguished fire

Small
10 ft.
1d6
DC X
Diminutive fire (e.g. torch)
Medium
20 ft.
1d8
DC X
Tiny fire (e.g. small campfire)
Large
40 ft.
2d6
DC X
Small fire (e.g. large campfire)
Huge
60 ft.
2d8
DC X
Medium fire (e.g. forge)
Greater
60 ft.
3d6
DC X
Medium fire (e.g. forge)
Elder
60 ft.
3d8
DC X
Large fire (e.g. bonfire)
Monolith
80 ft.
4d6
DC X
Huge fire (e.g. burning shack)

That OK?
 

We shouldn't need to explain the fire's size category: a fire is an object in the RAW, and objects have size categories. I don't think we should have the reference to control flames, but I'd be willing to include the "extinguished size" column in the table, since we need a table anyway.

Revision #1 is fine as long as we change "up to X size categories smaller than the quasi-elemental" to "up to the size category given in the table below." It makes sense to me that the Elder and Monolith should get some boost.
 

Revision #1 is fine as long as we change "up to X size categories smaller than the quasi-elemental" to "up to the size category given in the table below." It makes sense to me that the Elder and Monolith should get some boost.

What the hell? I'm sure I put something like that in the Revision but it's certain not there now. I was having trouble persuading the tables to work, so I might have removed the error then promptly copy-and-pasted it back in.

Hmm, I also could have sworn the control flames in the revision was italicised but that's unslanty - what's up with that?

Anyhows it seems we're on the same wavelength, so shall I add the following to the Ash Quasi-Elemental Working Draft?

Chilling Aura (Su): An ash quasi-elemental radiates an aura of cold energy that does cold damage every round to all targets within range. This aura extinguishes mundane fires up to the size category indicated in the table below. For further information on fire sizes, see the control flames psionic power.

[TABLE="class: cms_table"] [TR] [TD]Size of Ash
Quasi-Elemental
[/TD] [TD]Aura
Radius
[/TD] [TD]Cold
Damage
[/TD] [TD]Maximum size
of extinguished fire
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [TD]5 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d3[/TD] [TD]Fine fire (e.g. tindertwig)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]10 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d4[/TD] [TD]Diminutive fire (e.g. torch)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [TD]20 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]Tiny fire (e.g. small campfire)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [TD]30 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]Small fire (e.g. large campfire)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Greater[/TD] [TD]30 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d10[/TD] [TD]Small fire (e.g. large campfire)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Elder[/TD] [TD]30 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d12[/TD] [TD]Medium fire (e.g. forge)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Monolith[/TD] [TD]40 ft.[/TD] [TD]2d6[/TD] [TD]Large fire (e.g. bonfire)[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Chilling Blast (Su): The ash quasi-elemental can create a cone-shaped blast of cold energy as a standard action, which damages all targets in the area of effect (Reflex save for half damage). This blast extinguishes mundane fires extinguishes mundane fires up to the size category indicated in the table below. For further information on fire sizes, see the control flames psionic power. The save DC is Constitution-based.

[TABLE="class: cms_table"] [TR] [TD]Size of Ash
Quasi-Elemental
[/TD] [TD]Cone
Range
[/TD] [TD]Cold
Damage
[/TD] [TD]Reflex
Save
[/TD] [TD]Maximum size
of extinguished fire
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Small[/TD] [TD]10 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]DC 12[/TD] [TD]Diminutive fire (e.g. torch)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Medium[/TD] [TD]20 ft.[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]DC 14[/TD] [TD]Tiny fire (e.g. small campfire)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Large[/TD] [TD]40 ft.[/TD] [TD]2d6[/TD] [TD]DC 17[/TD] [TD]Small fire (e.g. large campfire)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Huge[/TD] [TD]60 ft.[/TD] [TD]2d8[/TD] [TD]DC 21[/TD] [TD]Medium fire (e.g. forge)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Greater[/TD] [TD]60 ft.[/TD] [TD]3d6[/TD] [TD]DC 24[/TD] [TD]Medium fire (e.g. forge)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Elder[/TD] [TD]60 ft.[/TD] [TD]3d8[/TD] [TD]DC 27[/TD] [TD]Large fire (e.g. bonfire)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Monolith[/TD] [TD]80 ft.[/TD] [TD]4d6[/TD] [TD]DC 35[/TD] [TD]Huge fire (e.g. burning shack)[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
 

I still think we should take out the sentence about control flames, but I sense that you really want to leave it in. So I'll go along for the sake of getting it done. It looks good overall, though.
 


Whew! Both original versions have immunity to cold, so we should add that. Also:

Planescape Appendix said:
Thus, all fire-based attacks inflict twice their normal damage. If an ash quasielemental is destroyed by fire, it explodes, inflicting 1d4 points of damage per Hit Die on all creatures within 30 feet.
Dragon 128 said:
All fire-based spells inflict twice the normal damage, and if the temperature is raised above freezing, the Ash quasi-elemental must save vs. poison or explode, inflicting 1-4 hp/HD damage to all within 20’. In combat, Ash quasi-elementals can only be struck by + 1 or better weapons.

It seems we should add vulnerability to fire and some sort of death throes. The question is if the death throes are triggered when it is killed by fire damage or when the ambient temperature is high. Or if we just want it to explode whenever it dies. :devil:
 

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