Converting Planescape monsters

[freyar]

OK, is the disintegration in the engulf negative energy damage? I think if we figure out what the damage is, that write-up shouldn't be too hard. I guess the only other question is if there should be any way out short of killing the quasielemental.

 

[Cleon]

OK, is the disintegration in the engulf negative energy damage? I think if we figure out what the damage is, that write-up shouldn't be too hard. I guess the only other question is if there should be any way out short of killing the quasielemental.

Since a disintegrate spell does typeless damage I reckon the Dust Quasi-Elemental's damage ought to be typeless as well.

As the original text says "the only way to free him is to kill the quasielemental" we ought to at least make it very difficult to escape the Engulf.

 

[freyar]

Typeless would make sense, but these are negative-energy-linked critters. I guess I'll go along with typeless if you prefer.

I guess Engulf often makes it pretty hard to escape (the gelatinous cube isn't too specific), so I could go along with making it impossible to escape short of killing the quasielemental. But then we need to limit the size of engulfed critters. Maybe to 1 size category smaller?

 

[Cleon]

Typeless would make sense, but these are negative-energy-linked critters. I guess I'll go along with typeless if you prefer.

Typeless seems the best fit. We didn't give the Ash Quasielemental negative energy damage for its cold attack. I'd be more game to give the Vacuum Quasielemental a negative energy attack, since they "embody the absence of everything".

I guess Engulf often makes it pretty hard to escape (the gelatinous cube isn't too specific), so I could go along with making it impossible to escape short of killing the quasielemental. But then we need to limit the size of engulfed critters. Maybe to 1 size category smaller?

Going by the SRD Cloaker and Gelatinous Cube, it looks like Engulf is treated as a grapple for purposes of escaping from it.

I'd allow them to engulf anything up to their own size, as the original monster was M-sized and could engulf a M-sized opponent.

Rereading the entry though, it could engulf a single opponent, so we should probably allow for that in the attack's description.

The following would be a pretty literal interpretation of the attack:

Engulf (Ex) #1: If a dust quasi-elemental rolls a critical hit against an opponent its own size or smaller with its slam attack it can wrap its body around its opponent. The engulfed opponent takes X damage at the end of each round they remain engulfed. Any creature reduced to -10 or fewer hit points by this damage is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. The engulfed creature is considered grappled and trapped within the quasielemental's body.

However, I think I'd prefer a Save vs Engulfing approach, like an Ooze:

Engulf (Ex) #2: If a dust quasi-elemental hits an opponent its own size or smaller with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed on a DC X Reflex save or be engulfed in the quasi-elemental's body. The engulfed opponent takes X damage at the end of each round they remain engulfed. Any creature reduced to -10 or fewer hit points by this damage is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. The engulfed creature is considered grappled and trapped within the quasielemental's body.

We could use a grapple check instead, like a Cloaker, but I think the Ooze model feels more appropriate.

 

[freyar]

I prefer the save, too. But I think you've missed out on the any single opponent, right? It reads like it can keep engulfing new opponents. Also, I like that the victim can escape via the grapple rules, but I thought you were against that.

 

[Cleon]

I prefer the save, too. But I think you've missed out on the any single opponent, right? It reads like it can keep engulfing new opponents. Also, I like that the victim can escape via the grapple rules, but I thought you were against that.

The original monster could only engulf a single S or M opponent, but that seems a bit odd - wouldn't a creature literally made out of dust be able to engulf as many creatures as can fit inside it, and why would it be unable to engulf T foes?

The "powerless to act" of the original also seems unduly harsh. How about engulfed opponents must make a save every round or be nauseated for 1 round, like a creature enveloped in a Swarm?

As for the "escape via grapple" issue, it just seemed simpler to keep the not very specific "considered grappled and trapped" wording of the original Engulf.

 

[freyar]

I'll agree to all that. I'm wondering, should we specify if the "end of each round they remain engulfed" is at the end of their turn or the end of the dust quasi-elemental's turn? Also, I'm guessing at Con-based saves.

Engulf (Ex): If a dust quasi-elemental hits an opponent its own size or smaller with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed on a DC X Reflex save or be engulfed in the quasi-elemental's body. The engulfed opponent takes X damage at the end of each round they remain engulfed and must make a DC X Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1 round. Any creature reduced to -10 or fewer hit points by this damage is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. The engulfed creature is considered grappled and trapped within the quasi-elemental's body. The quasi-elemental can engulf up to X creatures. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

 

[Cleon]

I'll agree to all that. I'm wondering, should we specify if the "end of each round they remain engulfed" is at the end of their turn or the end of the dust quasi-elemental's turn? Also, I'm guessing at Con-based saves.

The save vs. nausea should be every round. The current draft doesn't make that clear.

As for the Engulf limit, I think we can should adapt the "as many as it can cover" wording of the Gelatinous cube.

I think Strength-based saves fit existing examples better than Constitution-based saves. A Gelatinous Cube's Engulf, Air Elemental's Whirlwind and Water Elemental's Vortex attacks all use Str-based DCs.

How's this revision:

Engulf (Ex): If a dust quasi-elemental hits an opponent its own size or smaller with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed on a DC X Reflex save or be engulfed in the quasi-elemental's body. The engulfed creature is considered grappled and trapped within the quasi-elemental's body. A dust quasi-elemental can engulf as many creatures as will fit inside its space.

Any living creature that begins its turn engulfed by a dust quasi-elemental must succeed at a DC X Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1 round. In addition, objects and creatures engulfed by the quasi-elemental take X damage at the end of each round they remain engulfed. Any target reduced to -10 or fewer hit points by this damage is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust.

The save DCs are Strength-based.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, I updated the Dust Quasi-Elemental Working Draft with the stats from post #1309 but either forgot to mention it or the post I did it in went AWOL.

We should talk about what damage we're giving these creature, both from their slams and their "disintegrating engulf".

 

[Cleon]

Just noticed the current Working Draft was missing the Negative Adaptation SQ's description, so I've added it in.