Converting Psionic Creatures

[Cleon]

Making the tentacles secondary takes a -5 penalty to the attack bonus (or -2 if we give them Multiattack) even when made as the only attack. It would be less effective.

Oh right, I was just thinking of the damage for some reason, which is irrelevant as the tentacles don't do any.

Multiattack wouldn't be an issue since they don't have the three natural attacks prereq - unless you want to give it to them as a bonus feat.

A standard grapple attempt provokes an AoO. That's a pretty important difference.

Yes, I know. I was mentally comparing them to an attacker with Improved Grapple or Snatch, since that seemed a closest match to Improved Grab.

Maybe we should just give them regular Improved Grab and note in the description that it involves seizing their victim with their "mouth tentacles".

 

[freyar]

So are you agreed to giving them a secondary tentacle touch attack that triggers Imp Grab?

 

[Cleon]

So are you agreed to giving them a secondary tentacle touch attack that triggers Imp Grab?

So just to be clear, you're favoring the following for both Attack and Full Attack:

Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) or tentacles +5 melee touch (grapple plus poison).

I'm not that keen on it, frankly. If it's evolved to grapple prey with its tentacles I don't see why it wouldn't do so at its full attack, especially if that's the only attack it has that round.

I'd rather cut the tentacles from the attack line and fall back on improved grab, something like:

Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison)

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a cessirid must hit with a bite or grapple attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold with its facial tentacles and affects the opponent with its poison.

 

[freyar]

Can't a secondary attack be an "and" option in a full attack line? I would favor

Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) or tentacles +5 melee touch (grapple plus poison).
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) and tentacles +5 melee touch (grapple plus poison).

 

[Cleon]

Can't a secondary attack be an "and" option in a full attack line? I would favor

Of course it can, I just wasn't sure I liked using that approach for the Cessirid, since the mouth-tentacles seem pretty short. The original description also only describes it using its tentacles to add poison to its bite attack. This grappling business is something we're basically making up out of whole cloth.

Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) or tentacles +5 melee touch (grapple plus poison).
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) and tentacles +5 melee touch (grapple plus poison).

There's no real need to list the tentacles in the Attack Line, since a creature can use a secondary attack as a standard attack if it wants to according to the SRD.

So we'll be giving it a Trip with its bite attack and an Improved Grab with its tentacles then? e.g.:

Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison)
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (10d10+6 and poison) and tentacles +5 melee touch (improved grab plus poison)

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a cessirid must hit with its tentacles attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and affects its opponent with its poison.

Poison (Ex): A cessirid's mouth-tentacles constantly ooze poison. Any creature hit by a cessirid's bite or tentacle attacks must save against this venomous slime. An opponent must also save against a cessirid's poison every time the illithidae makes an opposed grapple check against them. The cessirid does not need to win the grapple check, since mere contact is enough to poison its foe.

Cessirid Slime: Contact or injury, Fortitude save (DC 18); initial damage sickened for 1d10 minutes; secondary damage 1d6 Dex and sickened for 1d2 hours.

 

[freyar]

That'll do.

 

[Cleon]

That'll do.

Updating Cessirid Update Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

OK, all set with special abilities?

 

[Cleon]

OK, all set with special abilities?

I believe so.

What red text would you care to deal with next?

 

[freyar]

I think we can give them the psionic subtype, don't you?

I'll agree with your change to alignment and changing the pack to (2-20).

CR is interesting. They might be almost comparable to the CR 7 succubus, except the succubus has energy drain. They are probably also a bit worse than a CR 7 aboleth. CR 6 seems about right.