Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures

[freyar]

Str 33, Con 26, Dex 3 is ok.

 

[Cleon]

Str 33, Con 26, Dex 3 is ok.

Updating the Noble Gossamer Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Let's get to work on some basics, then. Stings: do we want to add some piercing damage (the standard doesn't have any)? Maybe 1d4 or 1d6 per sting? Upsizing the acid from 1 at Diminutive by the usual table is 3d6, but that feels a bit big, especially if we don't want to make these too strong compared to gammaroids. Maybe 1d8 acid?

 

[Cleon]

Let's get to work on some basics, then. Stings: do we want to add some piercing damage (the standard doesn't have any)? Maybe 1d4 or 1d6 per sting? Upsizing the acid from 1 at Diminutive by the usual table is 3d6, but that feels a bit big, especially if we don't want to make these too strong compared to gammaroids. Maybe 1d8 acid?

I'm leaning towards just having it do damage via its secretions (e.g. acid plus poison). If we give it a natural weapon damage it'll get a Strength bonus of +11 on it, which doesn't feel right - it'll likely mean it does more damage from impact than its corrosive enzymes do.

Unless we give it some special rule where it doesn't add its Strength bonus to its sting damage I suppose.

Simply upsizing the Standard Gossamer's 1 point acid doesn't work very well because they've got a single attack, while the Noble Gossamer has twenty.

Let's try comparing some numbers.

The original Noble Gossamer has a 20d6 damage potential (average 70), while the original Gammaroid had 20d6+60d4 (average 220), which is about a third as much.

Our Gammaroid conversion averages 154, so it's one of the rare cases where our 3E version does less damage than the original! Of course, that's ignoring Power Attack - it could easily use 50 points of Power Attack and increase its average damage to 300-odd without reducing its likelihood of hitting most targets.

If we use that 300-point average Gammaroid damage as a baseline, giving the Noble Gossamer a 1d8 acid sting would fit, but it just feels a little feeble. Especially when you consider any creature with acid resistance 10 either naturally or from a spell would be effectively immune to its attacks.

Maybe we should rekindle our love of the dodecahedron and make it 1d12?

Alternatively (or additionally) we might also give it Improved Grapple and the ability to combine its acid damage with constrict attacks (e.g. one sting does 1d8, two stings do 2d8, et cetera) rather than having them roll damage separately.

 

[Arnwyn]

I do like the idea of acid damage, for sure (as that will also harm the gammaroid).

I also smile whenever a d12 is used, so I'm game with that (though I'm not married to it).

I also like the idea of improved grab - I can visualize it in space grabbing on to gammaroids (or other creatures) easily and aciding them heavily.

I'm not sure about the combining of acid - but I would say if it reduces rolls, then (IMO) that's a good thing. I don't necessarily want to be rolling a gazillion acid damage rolls if we can find a way to avoid it...

 

[Cleon]

I'm not sure about the combining of acid - but I would say if it reduces rolls, then (IMO) that's a good thing. I don't necessarily want to be rolling a gazillion acid damage rolls if we can find a way to avoid it...

My proposal is to roll the same amount of dice but count the acid damage from multiple tentacle constrictions as one lot of damage, thus reducing the effectiveness of acid resistance.

If we used a d12 for the acid damage, then a creature with acid resistance 15 would not take any acid damage from a regular sting attack, no matter how many hit, since each would do 1d12-15 damage. But if we combined the damage, then a portion of it might get through if multiple stings hit/constrict (e.g. four stings might do 4d12-15 acid).

 

[Arnwyn]

Ah, okay, I see.

Yes, I definitely like that.

 

[Cleon]

Ah, okay, I see.

Yes, I definitely like that.

Good. In that case I'll try to rough out a proposal later today.

 

[freyar]

I like the d12 a lot in general, but you're talking about 130 average damage over 20 attacks. That seems a bit higher than we wanted to go.

For Imp Grab, are you going for something that can grapple multiple critters at once? I know there are monsters we can consult for that ability, but I'm blanking on which. We've certainly done some in the CC.

 

[Cleon]

I like the d12 a lot in general, but you're talking about 130 average damage over 20 attacks. That seems a bit higher than we wanted to go.

I could go with either 1d8 or 1d12 acid damage per tentacle.

The original Gammaroid had an average damage output of 220 hp versus the Noble Gossamer's average of 70, which lead to my suggestion of 1d8 based on some reasonable-seeming Power Attack assumptions for the Gammaroid.

However, the 100 HD Gammaroid's has a lot more hit points in 3E than 2E due to its higher Constitution (1,850 hp instead of 450 hp), especially compared to the 58 HD Noble Gossamer with its lower Constitution (725 hp instead of 261 hp).

That's a 48% higher ratio between their hit points (1,850/725 is 2.55, 450/261 is 1.72). If we applied that +48% ratio to the Gossamer's acid damage, or 1.48 times the 4.5 average of 1d8, it works out to 6.66, or just above the 6.5 average of a d12.

However, looking at it from the other way the Gammaroid has a lot lower damage ratio versus the Noble Gossamer's hit points in 3E than it does in 2E. If we use the 50-point Power Attack assumption it'll likely take three rounds to kill the Noble Gossamer - its 300-odd average damage is roughly 41% of the Gossamer's 725 hit points. By comparison, the AD&D version 220 point average damage output is about 84% to the Gossamer's 261 average hit points! Even if the 3E went full out with a 100-point full Power Attack it can't burn through the Gossamer's hit points that fast, since its average damage of about 450 damage per round is roughly 62% of the Gossamer's hp.

For Imp Grab, are you going for something that can grapple multiple critters at once? I know there are monsters we can consult for that ability, but I'm blanking on which. We've certainly done some in the CC.

Yes, something like that. I'm thinking we'd use the usual "holding but not considered grappled at a -20 grapple check" rule for multiple opponents, since I don't think the tentacles are likely to have that strong a grip - it likely relies more on paralyzing its victims than overpowering them.