Converting the Warlock to Castles & Crusades

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Our lapsed warlock player has returned, just in time for the end of the 3.5 era of our campaign. When it starts up again in a few months, it'll be a Castles & Crusades game, before the stat blocks become too unwieldy for me to deal with. (Everyone will likely end this stage of the campaign around level 6 or 7.)

I'm guessing the warlock player will not just want to be a C&C wizard, since the warlock-ness of his character is pretty central to his concept. My plan is to convert many of his invocations and such into already-learned custom spells in his spellbook, but that still leaves the Eldritch Blast.

How good of an ability is it, really? Is it the equivalent of a whole level of spellcasting (i.e. could I just have his spells per day and spellcasting ability be docked by one level in exchange for him having access to a 3.5-style Eldritch Blast ability)? Is it the equivalent of one or more spell slots, and if so, which level (or maybe just a few of the top level available)?

On the surface, it's not such a powerful ability that it's unbalancing, but it's clearly better than just having a familiar, or other abilities I could neatly swap it out for with the C&C wizard.

Advice and suggestions appreciated.

 

[Stormonu]

It would probably be best to treat it as if it were a short bow with unlimited ammunition; in many regards, that's exactly what it is. For the most part, the eldritch blast is the warlock's secondary (combat-based) ability, with his invocations being the primary source of his power.

For C&C, I would suggest:

Levels 1-5: Range 60 feet, 1d6 damage
Levels 6-10: Range 90 feet, 2d6 damage
Levels 11-15: Range 120 feet, 3d6 damage
Levels 16+: Range 150 feet, 4d6 damage

I'd leave room for invocations that allow slight, passive tweaks

The main difference is in the feel of the warlock vs. the wizard. The wizard is about planning for the challenges he expects to face; he's batman, ready for anything. The warlock is about pressing a button repeatedly until the obstacle or enemy falls down; he's the joker in he makes terrifying use of what he's been given.

 

[Treebore]

This is how I adopted some aspect from 4E. think it might work for you situation with some modifications, and if you think it warrants it, give them a unique XP chart that make them progress a little bit slower than a normal "Wizard". I wouldn't, they have to choose between casting a spell, or using this ability, right? Just this one is unlimited use all day? Put a limit on it, say 1 time per point of CON, or INT, or some such. Or make them have to roll a to hit roll versus their targets AC, where only their DEX and magic mods count.


"Divine/Arcane blasts. These are a pure energy attack that any spell caster can use every other round as long as they do not cast any spells on the round in between. Yes, this means all day long. This is because that round is a recharge/gather the power round. This attack requires a "To hit" roll versus the targets AC, but the casters BtH for purposes of this attack is equal to their level and its modified by their DEX. Damage is 1d4 per level of the caster and requires a "item" as the component for this ability. It costs 20 GP per dice of damage. Typically a cleric uses their Holy Symbol and Arcane Casters most frequently make a wand.

As usual, I do allow a SIEGE check to cast this every round, it will be CON based, and failed checks will cost a temporary loss of one CON point to simulate the exhaustive nature of wasting the energy as well as gathering it so quickly. The CL will equal the amount of dice you want to do for damage, and the base TN will always be 12, since this is now a "Class Ability" for all spell casters.

Lost CON is regained at 1 point per hour of rest, or from a Lesser Restoration."

 

[Harlock]

It would probably be best to treat it as if it were a short bow with unlimited ammunition; in many regards, that's exactly what it is. For the most part, the eldritch blast is the warlock's secondary (combat-based) ability, with his invocations being the primary source of his power.

For C&C, I would suggest:

Levels 1-5: Range 60 feet, 1d6 damage
Levels 6-10: Range 90 feet, 2d6 damage
Levels 11-15: Range 120 feet, 3d6 damage
Levels 16+: Range 150 feet, 4d6 damage

I'd leave room for invocations that allow slight, passive tweaks

The main difference is in the feel of the warlock vs. the wizard. The wizard is about planning for the challenges he expects to face; he's batman, ready for anything. The warlock is about pressing a button repeatedly until the obstacle or enemy falls down; he's the joker in he makes terrifying use of what he's been given.

I think allowing unlimited cantrips is viable, or giving an item (wand, staff, implement of some kind) that allows an any time eldritch blast. I am not sold on scaling it up. Hmm, a search of the Troll Lord forums turns up some decent conversation, if you are willing to give it a look.

Ah, no need, Treebore's was one of the better posts on the subject over there and he kindly quoted it here for you. Enjoy.

 

[Stormonu]

I am not sold on scaling it up.

The scaling is only relevant if other characters can increase their rate of fire/attacks per round - rather than making multiple attacks, this is just increasing the damage, as if the warlock were attacking the same enemy with all his "attacks".

Besides, a 4d6 eldritch blast (at one opponent, no less) at 16th level vs. a wizard's 16d6 delayed blast fireball at the same level isn't nearly overpowered.

 

[Harlock]

The scaling is only relevant if other characters can increase their rate of fire/attacks per round - rather than making multiple attacks, this is just increasing the damage, as if the warlock were attacking the same enemy with all his "attacks".

Besides, a 4d6 eldritch blast (at one opponent, no less) at 16th level vs. a wizard's 16d6 delayed blast fireball at the same level isn't nearly overpowered.

I haven't bothered to look at the math. Obviously there is more to that equation than pure damage output. The wizard does have to memorize that spell, etc. And, as I stated, Treebore's version looked good on the TLG boards, and it does scale.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I haven't bothered to look at the math. Obviously there is more to that equation than pure damage output. The wizard does have to memorize that spell, etc. And, as I stated, Treebore's version looked good on the TLG boards, and it does scale.

I'm not sure why all the other encumberances have been added to the ability, though. Every other round? Lower damage dice?

This seems like an needlessly complex solution to what, really, should be a fairly simple problem. If it knocks off a whole level of spellcasting (or, alternately, just takes a certain number of top-level spell slots), it should be pretty easy to estimate the math of how good or bad the ability is compared to just having the spells.

I do think requiring a warlock to have a focus to use the ability is appropriate.

And I agree with Stormonu in continuing to have invocations (in this case, a custom set of wizard spells) that modify the ability and make it better.

 

[Harlock]

I'm not sure why all the other encumberances have been added to the ability, though. Every other round? Lower damage dice?

This seems like an needlessly complex solution to what, really, should be a fairly simple problem. If it knocks off a whole level of spellcasting (or, alternately, just takes a certain number of top-level spell slots), it should be pretty easy to estimate the math of how good or bad the ability is compared to just having the spells.

I do think requiring a warlock to have a focus to use the ability is appropriate.

And I agree with Stormonu in continuing to have invocations (in this case, a custom set of wizard spells) that modify the ability and make it better.

You know your game best! Rule Zero and all that jazz.

 

[Treebore]

I'm not sure why all the other encumberances have been added to the ability, though. Every other round? Lower damage dice?

This seems like an needlessly complex solution to what, really, should be a fairly simple problem. If it knocks off a whole level of spellcasting (or, alternately, just takes a certain number of top-level spell slots), it should be pretty easy to estimate the math of how good or bad the ability is compared to just having the spells.

I do think requiring a warlock to have a focus to use the ability is appropriate.

And I agree with Stormonu in continuing to have invocations (in this case, a custom set of wizard spells) that modify the ability and make it better.

I did it the way I did to make it fit in with the power scale of the monsters, etc... in C&C. IF your doing a higher power scale, such as using 3E monsters, then scaling it at d6 and allowing it every round would work. Like I said, my suggestion was a suggestion for you to modify to work for YOUR game. If you don't think it will, certainly do not use it. I have been using this rule pretty much since 4E came out, and it has worked well for my game. So some pretty extensive play testing behind it. Like weekly, for several years.

But if you don't think it can be adjusted to work for you, well, thats the nature of suggestions, you can take them or leave them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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