Converting True Dragons
- Thread starter Shade
- Start date
Cleon
Hero
No, it makes sense to sort out the "Dragon Problems" on this thread.
The Crow's Nest Dragonet's "fog breath" should be simple enough to write up.
Oh, and the Cobra Dragon's alignment is wrong - are you OK with me just changing it to LE?
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Go ahead and swap the cobra dragon's alignment. That must have been a copy-paste-forget-to-change error. Just keep track of it for darjr, I guess.
Here's the crow's nest dragonet breath weapon entry from the original critter:
So...
Breath Weapon (Su): Once per day, a crow's nest dragonet can breathe out a cloud of mist, as the spell fog cloud.
Here's the crow's nest dragonet breath weapon entry from the original critter:
So...
Breath Weapon (Su): Once per day, a crow's nest dragonet can breathe out a cloud of mist, as the spell fog cloud.
Cleon
Hero
I tried, but the revived CC's dragon-editing function has gone AWOL, so it'll have to wait until Darjr restores it.
That's fine, except that I think it needs a duration. The original was equivalent to a CL 9th fog cloud. In 3E D&D that'd have a 90 minute duration, but in the 2E AD&D this dragonet was written for fog cloud has a duration of 4+level rounds, for 12 rounds.
That seems a lot more reasonable than an hour and a half, and I'd round it to a minute:
Breath Weapon (Su): Once per day, a crow's nest dragonet can breathe out a cloud of mist, as the spell fog cloud, with a duration of 1 minute.
Cleon
Hero
Might as well.
...hmm, I went to update the Dragonet but couldn't log in to the Creature Catalog Admin.
Maybe Darjr has it down for maintenance?
Cleon
Hero
Good, I was hoping it was just a temporary thing.
Cleon
Hero
It would seem more sensible to address the "Dragon Update" issues before we start the slog of creating new true dragons:
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I went to look up where we did the conversions on these and just got to the jade right now. I assume you mean what we eventually called the Mystaran Jade Dragon? In that case, we had a long discussion about the "wasting disease" and concluded that we should make it a curse that acts all at once (see the discussion starting at post 152 in this thread). I therefore wouldn't go back and change it. On the other hand, you've got an earlier credit for it than the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix. Is this a different one? (Note that we also have a different jade dragon in the CC.)
Cleon
Hero
The Mystaran Jade Dragon from the Mystaran Monstrous Compendium is an AD&D 2E version of the BECMI "Gemstone" Jade Dragon that first appears in the Masters Rules set.
The Masters D&D version has two breath weapons, one "Chlorine Gas" like a Green Dragon and the other has the Rotting/Wasting effect under discussion (e.g. inflicts 1 damage per turn and prevents any magical healing save cure disease).
The latter is quite different to the instantaneous Con and Cha damage of the current conversion. Apart from being a "slow death" attack, none of the 2E/BECMI versions have anything about the victim suffering a Charisma penalty.
Maybe we could add a subentry to the Mystaran Jade Dragon with a two breath weapon variant?
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I am a tad confused: the CC Mystaran Jade Dragon does have two breath weapons:
And one of them is just like the SRD green dragon.
I also don't want to change the second weapon to a long-term disease, as we already had that discussion, as I just noted above. I think we had good reasons for modifying it the way we did. I think we've done a good job balancing accuracy in conversion with less awkward mechanics.
Cleon
Hero
Sorry about that, I got turned around. It's the Monstrous Compendium version of the Mystaran Jade Dragon that has a single breath weapon - one with initial "chlorine gas" acid damage (save halves), and if the target fails that save they must succeed at a second save of start taking the rotting disease effect to their person and their equipment.
Well I'd like to have a rotting effect that's closer to the original breath weapon. If we gave it as a "sub entry" variant we could make it a single breath weapon with two saves like the Mystaran Monstrous Compendium Appendix version which the CC conversion was based on.
Incidentally, the original BECMI Jade Dragon's breath weapon did normal breath weapon damage plus the rotting effect, it didn't only transmit a slow death disease. So it has a "Green Dragon" breath weapon plus a "nastier than Green Dragon" breath weapon.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Are you saying that we should make a new true dragon to distinguish them? Or add an underbar to the Mystaran Jade Dragon? I am opposed to editing what we have outright, given that we both along with Shade and RavinRay agreed to what's there now.
By the way, are we even able to edit true dragons? I have some memory that they're not working properly.
By the way, are we even able to edit true dragons? I have some memory that they're not working properly.
Cleon
Hero
I was proposing adding an underbar with a variant breath weapon. It's certainly not worth the trouble of entering an entirely new dragon writeup.
To be honest, I didn't remember what we discussed during the conversion. Rereading that part of this thread it looks like I preferred the earlier "Curse" version Shade proposed in post #165 - at least judging by my saying I liked a "damage per hour effect" in posts #167 and #167.
They weren't editable the last time I tried it. Bear with me for a moment...
...I can't even log into the Admin section of the Creature Catalog now, so I can't edit anything, let alone the True Dragons.
That makes this whole issue a bit academic.
How about we put this quandary to one side for the time being, and when (if?) Darjr restores our CC Admin abilities we can return to it if it still seems worth bothering about.
Since we both seem to be fixed in our respective positions, I think the easiest way to resolve the question at that time is to have a dice-off like we did with the Veiled Maidens.
In the meanwhile, perhaps we should skip the other two "Dragon Update Questions" - the Ruby's equipment-melting breath weapon and the Faerunian Yellow Dragon's blinding breath weapon effect and "Ant Lion" like sandpit attack - and move on to the possible New Dragons, namely.
AD&D Sand Dragon from Dragon #134 (1988)
BECMI Amber/Brown Dragon from D&D Master Set (1985)
BECMI Sapphire Dragon from D&D Master Set (1985)
Plus there are five Unique Dragons we don't appear to have gotten around to yet:
The Mystaran Dragon Rulers (Moon Dragon, Sun Dragon, Star Dragon, and The Great Dragon) from the D&D Master Set (1985)
Ahi the Steel Dragon from Dragon #62 (1983)
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Cleon
Hero
Since I have no particular favourite, we might as well do them in the order they're listed:
That'd make the Dragon #134 Sand Dragon the next conversion.
I'll post the original stats.
Cleon
Hero
Sand Dragon Original Stats
SAND DRAGON
Created by: Jeffrey S. Johnson
FREQUENCY: Very rare
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVE: 12″//24″ (9″ in sand)
HIT DICE: 10-12
% IN LAIR: 60%
TREASURE TYPE: H, S, T
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2 claws and 1 bite
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8/1-8/2-20
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Breath weapon, spell use, surprise on 1-9 on 1d10, high intelligence
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Low armor class, acute senses, saving-throw bonuses, magic resistance
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 20%
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: L (38′ long)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
CHANCE OF:
Speaking: 80%
Magic Use: 80%
Sleeping: 30%
Level/XP Value: 10 HD: VIII/4,950 + 14 per hit point; 11-12 HD: IX/7,250 + 16 per hit point
Sand dragons are of a unique race of dragons which inhabit warm climates with large, sand-covered areas such as deserts or beaches. Sand dragons can be easily identified by their long, wormlike bodies and their four short, muscular legs which end in webbed feet suitable for digging and swimming. The dragon’s head is diamond-shaped and flat, with bright blue eyes. A sand dragon’s body has rows of seashell scales lining the back, from the base of the skull to the tip of the forked tail. The color of the dragon’s hide varies with its natural environment; desert dwellers are brown in color, and beach dwellers are white.
Sand dragons are, for the most part, nonaggressive creatures. They will speak with adventuring parties, and may even aid them with information. However, when provoked, sand dragons can become powerful enemies. The devastating breath weapon of the sand dragon is a ray 2′ wide and 120′ long, which turns any living thing it touches into pure, loose, white sand (save vs. breath weapon at + 1). Restoration of a character is possible only with the use of a wish, though some reports have indicated that desperate adventurers successfully used rock to mud, mud to rock, stone shape, and stone to flesh (in that order) to restore characters, and achieved success against all expectations.
Sand dragons gain magic-user and druidic spells by age level, though they do not otherwise function as druids and must learn these spells from other sand dragons as they grow up. Only verbal components are required to cast these spells, which are acquired as follows:
Very young: One first-level magic-user spell
Young: One first-level druidic spell
Subadult: One second-level magic-user spell
Young adult: One second-level druidic spell
Adult: One third-level magic-user spell
Old: One third-level druidic spell
Very old: One fourth-level magic-user spell
Ancient: One fourth-level druidic spell
Sand dragons bury themselves beneath the sand to sleep and hide from their enemies. When hidden, sand dragons are completely camouflaged and undetectable. When they choose, they pop their heads from beneath the sand, surprising their enemies 90% of the time. Sand dragons can hold their breath for up to half an hour in any environment.
The sand dragon often has a fixed lair, though it tends to wander over great distances. Treasures are important to dragons, and the sand dragon is no exception. The sand dragon’s belongings are usually buried deep beneath the lair’s floor.
The reproductive process of the sand dragon is relatively slow. Every 10 years, the female dragon lays three eggs, buries them deep beneath the sand, and abandons them. One year later, the eggs hatch, and the infant sand dragons must seek out their parents or other sand dragons in order to be brought into the loose community of their kind and to be educated in magic. Few sand dragons survive to adulthood near civilized areas, and this breed is usually found only in uninhabited deserts.
Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #134 (“The Dragon’s Bestiary - Dragons of earth, sea, and space”, June 1988).
SAND DRAGON
Created by: Jeffrey S. Johnson
FREQUENCY: Very rare
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVE: 12″//24″ (9″ in sand)
HIT DICE: 10-12
% IN LAIR: 60%
TREASURE TYPE: H, S, T
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2 claws and 1 bite
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8/1-8/2-20
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Breath weapon, spell use, surprise on 1-9 on 1d10, high intelligence
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Low armor class, acute senses, saving-throw bonuses, magic resistance
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 20%
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: L (38′ long)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
CHANCE OF:
Speaking: 80%
Magic Use: 80%
Sleeping: 30%
Level/XP Value: 10 HD: VIII/4,950 + 14 per hit point; 11-12 HD: IX/7,250 + 16 per hit point
Sand dragons are of a unique race of dragons which inhabit warm climates with large, sand-covered areas such as deserts or beaches. Sand dragons can be easily identified by their long, wormlike bodies and their four short, muscular legs which end in webbed feet suitable for digging and swimming. The dragon’s head is diamond-shaped and flat, with bright blue eyes. A sand dragon’s body has rows of seashell scales lining the back, from the base of the skull to the tip of the forked tail. The color of the dragon’s hide varies with its natural environment; desert dwellers are brown in color, and beach dwellers are white.
Sand dragons are, for the most part, nonaggressive creatures. They will speak with adventuring parties, and may even aid them with information. However, when provoked, sand dragons can become powerful enemies. The devastating breath weapon of the sand dragon is a ray 2′ wide and 120′ long, which turns any living thing it touches into pure, loose, white sand (save vs. breath weapon at + 1). Restoration of a character is possible only with the use of a wish, though some reports have indicated that desperate adventurers successfully used rock to mud, mud to rock, stone shape, and stone to flesh (in that order) to restore characters, and achieved success against all expectations.
Sand dragons gain magic-user and druidic spells by age level, though they do not otherwise function as druids and must learn these spells from other sand dragons as they grow up. Only verbal components are required to cast these spells, which are acquired as follows:
Very young: One first-level magic-user spell
Young: One first-level druidic spell
Subadult: One second-level magic-user spell
Young adult: One second-level druidic spell
Adult: One third-level magic-user spell
Old: One third-level druidic spell
Very old: One fourth-level magic-user spell
Ancient: One fourth-level druidic spell
Sand dragons bury themselves beneath the sand to sleep and hide from their enemies. When hidden, sand dragons are completely camouflaged and undetectable. When they choose, they pop their heads from beneath the sand, surprising their enemies 90% of the time. Sand dragons can hold their breath for up to half an hour in any environment.
The sand dragon often has a fixed lair, though it tends to wander over great distances. Treasures are important to dragons, and the sand dragon is no exception. The sand dragon’s belongings are usually buried deep beneath the lair’s floor.
The reproductive process of the sand dragon is relatively slow. Every 10 years, the female dragon lays three eggs, buries them deep beneath the sand, and abandons them. One year later, the eggs hatch, and the infant sand dragons must seek out their parents or other sand dragons in order to be brought into the loose community of their kind and to be educated in magic. Few sand dragons survive to adulthood near civilized areas, and this breed is usually found only in uninhabited deserts.
Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #134 (“The Dragon’s Bestiary - Dragons of earth, sea, and space”, June 1988).
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Well, this is an interesting one. My first thoughts: I'd just give it the ability to cast druid spells along with Sorc/Wiz spells. That's considerably easier and consistent with other divine-casting dragon conversions. I also think we need to tone down the breath weapon in some way, maybe by making it easier to reverse at least for lower age categories.
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