Converting True Dragons

Cleon · Jul 31, 2010

I'll vote for Auburn Dragon with sorcerer spell casting that can access the Druid lists.

RavinRay · Aug 2, 2010

Using "wildshape" though just adds that bit more druidic flavor to the dragon. Sorcerer levels but druid list for me then.

Cleon · Aug 4, 2010

RavinRay said:
Using "wildshape" though just adds that bit more druidic flavor to the dragon. Sorcerer levels but druid list for me then.

Wildshape is fine by me.

Shade · Aug 6, 2010

Comparing to other 1e dragons...

AC is equal to black dragon.
Move is equal to blue dragon.
Damage is comparable to brass dragon (although claws are a point higher).
Int spans the range of both brass and bronze.
Size is comparable to black and brass.
Spell resistance is comparable to black and brass.
Spellcasting isn't comparable, since it is the only dragon given druidic casting. Black and brass is probably a safe comparison due to their other similarities.
Oddly, Hit Dice are not given for any of the new dragons in this article. Once again, borrowing from black and brass seems safe.

Cleon · Aug 6, 2010

Shade said:
Comparing to other 1e dragons...

AC is equal to black dragon.
Move is equal to blue dragon.
Damage is comparable to brass dragon (although claws are a point higher).
Int spans the range of both brass and bronze.
Size is comparable to black and brass.
Spell resistance is comparable to black and brass.
Spellcasting isn't comparable, since it is the only dragon given druidic casting. Black and brass is probably a safe comparison due to their other similarities.
Oddly, Hit Dice are not given for any of the new dragons in this article. Once again, borrowing from black and brass seems safe.

The spellcasting goes up to a 4th level spells, which is pretty good when compared to 1st edition Monster Manual dragons. It's about the same as a Blue or Red if I remember correctly.

Thus, I'd go for Bronze Dragon spellcasting.

Let's give them a Brass/Black's HD, for the sake of argument.

Brass Dragon's spell resistance, say.

So how about:

A black's AC
A blue's speed
Average of a brass & bronze's Int
A brass or black's size and HD (they're both the same)
A brass's spell resistance
A bronze spellcasting

Putting that together would give:

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]Auburn Dragons by Age
Age         Size     Hit Dice (hp)    Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha Base Atk/Grp Attack Fort Ref Will               Breath Weapon (DC)              Frightful Presence DC
Wyrmling       T     4d12+4 (30)       11  10  13  12  14  13     +4/-4      +6    +5   +4   +6     2d4 lightning or 1d4 sylvan flames (13)            13
Very young     S     7d12+7 (52)       13  10  13  12  14  13     +7/+4      +9    +6   +5   +7     4d4 lightning or 2d4 sylvan flames (17)            14
Young          M     10d12+20 (85)     15  10  15  14  16  15    +10/+12    +12    +9   +7  +10     6d4 lightning or 3d4 sylvan flames (17)            17
Juvenile       M     13d12+26 (110)    17  10  15  14  16  15    +13/+16    +16   +10   +8  +11     8d4 lightning or 4d4 sylvan flames (18)            18
Young adult    L     16d12+48 (152)    19  10  17  16  18  17    +16/+24    +19   +13  +10  +14    10d4 lightning or 5d4 sylvan flames (21)            21
Adult          L     19d12+76 (199)    23  10  19  16  18  17    +19/+29    +24   +15  +11  +15    12d4 lightning or 6d4 sylvan flames (23)            22
Mature adult   H     22d12+110 (253)   27  10  21  18  20  19    +22/+38    +28   +18  +13  +18    14d4 lightning or 7d4 sylvan flames (26)            25
Old            H     25d12+125 (287)   29  10  21  18  20  19    +25/+42    +32   +19  +14  +19    16d4 lightning or 8d4 sylvan flames (27)            27
Very old       H     28d12+168 (350)   31  10  23  20  22  21    +28/+46    +36   +22  +16  +22    18d4 lightning or 9d4 sylvan flames (30)            29
Ancient        H     31d12+186 (387)   33  10  23  20  22  21    +31/+50    +40   +23  +17  +23    20d4 lightning or 10d4 sylvan flames (31)           30
Wyrm           G     34d12+238 (459)   35  10  25  22  24  23    +34/+58    +42   +26  +19  +26    22d4 lightning or 11d4 sylvan flames (34)           33
Great wyrm     G     37d12+296 (536)   37  10  27  22  24  23    +37/+62    +46   +28  +20  +27    24d4 lightning or 12d4 sylvan flames (36)           34

Auburn Dragon Abilities by Age
Age           Speed                         Init    AC                                                   Special Abilities                           Caster Level  SR
Wyrmling      40 ft., fly 100 ft. (average)  +0     15 (+2 size, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 15   Nature sense, wild shape (1/day)                     —     —
Very young    40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     17 (+1 size, +6 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 17   Woodland stride, wild shape (2/day)                  —     —
Young         40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     19 (+9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 19            Wild shape (3/day)                                 1st     —
Juvenile      40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     22 (+12 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 22           Wild shape (Large)                                 3rd     —
Young adult   40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     24 (-1 size, +15 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 24   DR 5/magic, wild shape (4/day)                     5th    18
Adult         40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     27 (–1 size, +18 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 27   wild shape (Tiny)                                  7th    20
Mature Adult  40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     29 (–2 size, +21 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 29   DR 10/magic, wild shape (plant)                    9th    22
Old           40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     32 (–2 size, +24 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 32   [I]plant growth[/I], Wild shape (5/day)                  11th    24
Very old      40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)     +0     35 (–2 size, +27 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 35   DR 15/magic, wild shape (Huge)                    13th    25
Ancient       40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)   +0     38 (–2 size, +30 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 38   [I]command plant[/I], Wild shape (elemental 1/day)       15th    27
Wyrm          40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)   +0     39 (–4 size, +33 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 39   DR 20/magic, wild shape (6/day, elemental 2/day)  17th    28
Great wyrm    40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)   +0     42 (–4 size, +36 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 42   Wild shape (elemental 3/day, Huge elemental)      19th    30[/FONT]

*Can also cast druid spells and those from the Animal and Plant domains as arcane spells.

Breath Weapon (Su): An auburn dragon has two breath weapons, lightning and sylvan flames, as follows:

Lightning - The first breath weapon is a line of lightning doing electricity damage.

Sylvan Flames - the second breath weapon is a cone of supernatural flame that does nonlethal fire damage equal to half the amount of the lightning breath weapon. All affected creatures must succeed at a Reflex save or the sylvan flames will cling to them. Clinging sylvan flames inflict the same dice of nonlethal fire damage the following round (on the dragon's initiative) and cause the affected creature to glow eerily (as per the spell faerie fire) for 1 minute per point of damage the second round of sylvan flames inflicts.

Nature Sense (Ex): An auburn dragon gains a +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks.

Skills: Hide, Spellcraft and Survival are considered class skills for auburn dragons.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): 1/day—plant growth (old or older), command plant (ancient or older)

Wildshape (Su): An auburn dragon can wildshape like a druid. It cannot wildshape into a creature with more Hit Dice than it has levels in Dragon. The frequency and forms of its wildshaping depend on its age, as follows.

Wildshape Frequency—1/day (wyrmling or older); 2/day (very young or older); 3/day (young or older); 4/day (young adult or older); 5/day (old or older); 6/day (wyrm or older).

Wildshape Forms—Small or Medium Animal (wyrmling or older); Large Animal (juvenile or older); Tiny Animal (adult or older); Plant creatures of same sizes as animal (mature adult or older); Huge animal (very old or older);

Elemental Forms—an ancient auburn dragon can wildshape into a Small, Medium or Large elemental once per day; a wyrm can wildshape into an elemental twice per day; a great wyrm can wildshape into an elemental thrice per day and may also wildshape into a Huge elemental. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage.

Woodland Stride (Ex): A very young or older auburn dragon may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect the dragon.

Shade · Aug 6, 2010

That works for me!

Wild shape progression as follows?

Wyrmling Wild shape (1/day)
Very young Wild shape (2/day)
Young Wild shape (3/day)
Juvenile Wild shape (Large)
Young adult Wild shape (4/day)
Adult Wild shape (Tiny)
Mature adult Wild shape (plant)
Old Wild shape (5/day)
Very old Wild shape (Huge)
Ancient Wild shape (elemental 1/day)
Wyrm Wild shape (6/day, elemental 2/day)
Great wyrm Wild shape (elemental 3/day, Huge elemental)

Cleon · Aug 6, 2010

Shade said:
That works for me!

Wild shape progression as follows?

Wyrmling Wild shape (1/day)
Very young Wild shape (2/day)
Young Wild shape (3/day)
Juvenile Wild shape (Large)
Young adult Wild shape (4/day)
Adult Wild shape (Tiny)
Mature adult Wild shape (plant)
Old Wild shape (5/day)
Very old Wild shape (Huge)
Ancient Wild shape (elemental 1/day)
Wyrm Wild shape (6/day, elemental 2/day)
Great wyrm Wild shape (elemental 3/day, Huge elemental)

That looks a reasonable fit between the Druid level it needs and the Dragon's spellcasting level.

I was a little concerned that the dragon's significantly bigger, but it can always get Gargantuan Wild Shape and Colossal Wild Shape.

Hmm, it can also get Dragon Wild Shape, which has possibilities... :devil:

RavinRay · Aug 7, 2010

Neat, one of the best alternate form/wildshape abilities for a dragon. Are we going to use its versatile wildshape ability to fill in for the lack of SLAs, as the original version didn't seem to have any.

Cleon · Aug 7, 2010

RavinRay said:
Neat, one of the best alternate form/wildshape abilities for a dragon. Are we going to use its versatile wildshape ability to fill in for the lack of SLAs, as the original version didn't seem to have any.

Well early 1E dragons didn't have much in the way of SLAs (although they tended to pick them up later in 1E Dragons, like the dragons in the Monster Manual II), although the same dragons tended to get SLA boosts when they upgraded to 2E.

Thus, I wouldn't mind giving them a few more Special Abilities, Spell-Like or otherwise. I'm thinking maybe some more a Druid class abilities like Nature Sense, Resist Nature's Lure, Trackless Step or Woodland Stride, or a Green Dragon's SLAs - 3/day—suggestion (adult or older), dominate person (ancient or older); 1/day— plant growth (old or older), command plants (great wyrm).

How about Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, plant growth and command plants?

Since we seem happy with the wildshaping I'll edit it into my earlier post's rough draft. I'll also add a Black/Brass/Bronze Dragon's DR/magic progression.

EDIT: Updated. I'll stick in the hit points, BAB/Grap, saves and Frightful Presence DCs this evening. I don't have time now.