Converting True Dragons

[Cleon]

I'll agree to all of that.

Hmm, come to think of it if we make it 3d6+6 it won't scale well for the advanced sizes...

Large Bite 3d6+9 Swallow 3d6+6
Huge Bite 4d6+15 Swallow 3d6+10
Gargantuan Bite 3d6+21 Swallow 3d6+14

We'd better make it 3d6+9.

Updating Albino Wyrm Working Draft with Madness & Swallow.

The breath weapon is cold damage plus a sundering-like effect on items. Maybe base that on something like shatter, but cold rather than sonic?

Actually, all energy breath weapons in AD&D theoretically destroyed equipment carried by characters, it's just that most DMs didn't bother using that rule.

Apart from annoying PCs by wrecking their magic goodies, it was a real pain making all those item saving throws with every breath-blast.

At least that's how I remember the item saves worked in my 1E Dungeon Master's Guide, and I've practically got that thing burnt into my brain.

In other words, I'd just have it work like a standard 3E True Dragon's Breath Weapon. We just need to decide on how much damage it does.

 

[freyar]

Very good then! The albino wyrm breath weapon damage seems to be 1 step up from the white dragon and one down from the copper dragon in the original edition, so somewhere between 5d6 (17 hp avg) and 10d4 (25 hp avg), I guess, based on the 3.5e young adults of those two dragons. 5d8, perhaps?

 

[Cleon]

Very good then! The albino wyrm breath weapon damage seems to be 1 step up from the white dragon and one down from the copper dragon in the original edition, so somewhere between 5d6 (17 hp avg) and 10d4 (25 hp avg), I guess, based on the 3.5e young adults of those two dragons. 5d8, perhaps?

Let's see how the average damages compare:

White Albino Copper
4.5 .. 6.5 . . 8
9 . .. 12 . . 16
13.5 . 17.5 . 24
18 . . 23 . . 32
22.5 . 28.5 . 40
27 . . 34 . . 48
31.5 . 39.5 . 56
36 . . 46 . . 64
40.5 . 57 . . 72
45 . . 68 . . 80
49.5 . 79 . . 88
54 .. 101 . . 96

Hmm, its pretty close to the middle except for the Great Albino Wyrm, which does more breath weapon damage than either the White or the Copper.

1d8 per "age category" seems a good fit.

If we're making them Adult/Old/Wyrms at Large/Huge/Gargantuan the breath weapon'd need to be 6d8/8d8/11d8 though.

Hmm, if we make the damage 6-siders and even them up it might work better, at 6d6/8d6/11d6.

So, 6d6 cold for the basic model?

 

[freyar]

Sure, 6d6 is fine.

Is that it for special attacks?

They definitely should get darkvision 60 ft and low-light vision. I'd also be open to adding blindsense as a true dragon. Other thoughts?

 

[Cleon]

Sure, 6d6 is fine.

Is that it for special attacks?

6d6 it is then!

Am I right in assuming we're using the standard true dragon rules for the size and frequency of the Breath Weapon?

Which of the Swallow Wholes are we using?

They definitely should get darkvision 60 ft and low-light vision. I'd also be open to adding blindsense as a true dragon. Other thoughts?

I'd definitely give them Blindsense or Blindsight, them being subterranean and all.

We also need to set a value for their Spell Resistance.

An adult White has SR 20, but that seems too high. SR 17 like a Young Adult White?

 

[freyar]

Yes, standard dragon rules on the breath weapon. Ie, 1d4+1 rounds between breaths and either an 80 ft line or 60 ft cone. The two cold breath weapon dragons (white & silver) in the SRD both have cones, so I'm torn between the idea that these are descended from whites and therefore have a cone or else going with the line for a change of pace. What do you think?

Definitely the "specific" Swallow Whole, since we're only listing one size. 25 hp to cut out is fine, and we need to decide on NA to get the gizzard AC. The AC is similar to copper (starting worse and getting better) and better than the white dragon fairly consistently. Comparing, the Large young adult whites and coppers have +14 and +15 NA in 3.5e respectively. So go with +15 for the NA?

I'd say blindsense, like the true dragons. SR 17 will work for me.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, standard dragon rules on the breath weapon. Ie, 1d4+1 rounds between breaths and either an 80 ft line or 60 ft cone. The two cold breath weapon dragons (white & silver) in the SRD both have cones, so I'm torn between the idea that these are descended from whites and therefore have a cone or else going with the line for a change of pace. What do you think?

I'm thinking it's odd that the original didn't specify a size for the breath weapon.

Anyhow, I prefer a cone for the Albino's frost breath.

Definitely the "specific" Swallow Whole, since we're only listing one size. 25 hp to cut out is fine, and we need to decide on NA to get the gizzard AC. The AC is similar to copper (starting worse and getting better) and better than the white dragon fairly consistently. Comparing, the Large young adult whites and coppers have +14 and +15 NA in 3.5e respectively. So go with +15 for the NA?

A Young Adult Copper has +16 NA, not +15.

Still, averaging the two gives +15 NA, so that seems OK.

I'd say blindsense, like the true dragons. SR 17 will work for me.

Updating Albino Wyrm Working Draft.

I'm preferring Blindsight, as they're adepting to subterranean life.

Furthermore, increasing the darkvision to 90 ft. or 120 ft. is tempting.

 

[freyar]

Cone it is.

I think saying that young adult coppers have +15 NA must have been a typo. But let's stick with +15 for the albino.

I'd have to go look later, but do deep dragons get blindsight? If not, I can't see that albino wyrms should have better senses. I'll tentatively go along with an increased dark vision range, but I should really look up the deep dragons.

 

[Cleon]

Cone it is.

I think saying that young adult coppers have +15 NA must have been a typo. But let's stick with +15 for the albino.

I'd have to go look later, but do deep dragons get blindsight? If not, I can't see that albino wyrms should have better senses. I'll tentatively go along with an increased dark vision range, but I should really look up the deep dragons.

No, Deep Dragons don't get blindsight. They have permanent true seeing, so they hardly need it.

 

[freyar]

Blindsight isn't really better at dealing with mundane darkness (as they need to adapt to underground) as opposed to invisibility than darkvision plus blindsense is. I'd much prefer blindsense plus darkvision. Boosting the darkvision to 120 ft is ok, though.