Converting World of Greyhawk monsters

[freyar]

That's an idea! I'll go ahead and do that. And I'll fill in the X's sometime later.

 

[Echohawk]

Fortunately, there don't seem to be too many Xs left to fill in -- I think you've almost finished this template already!

I'm not sure a Subsumed Mind should retain all of the SQ of the base creature. A subsumed githzerai, for example, should probably lose all their psionic powers and intertial armor, since those require the githzerai to have a mind. (I have no idea how to translate that limitation into a game mechanic though.)

 

[freyar]

Good point! (And you say you're not good at monster design. You should give yourself more credit. ) How about keeping Ex but not Su, Sp, or Ps abilities? That's something like a skeleton or zombie, which are close to these in spirit.

Any ideas on the CR of these? I was thinking about CR by HD table (like skeletons and zombies), but I wonder if the power of the associated false K somehow should play in.

 

[Echohawk]

How about keeping Ex but not Su, Sp, or Ps abilities? That's something like a skeleton or zombie, which are close to these in spirit.

That works for me

Any ideas on the CR of these? I was thinking about CR by HD table (like skeletons and zombies), but I wonder if the power of the associated false K somehow should play in.

I was wondering if Subsumed Minds should actually have their own CR, or if perhaps they should be included in the CR of the controlling False Keraptis, and that should depend of the number of minds in its hierarchy.

Especially given that:

For each 10 Subsumed Minds in the Hierarchical Mind of a given false Keraptis, the false Keraptis gains a positive level and a +1 bonus to Intelligence. In addition, for each 10 Subsumed Minds, the false Keraptis gains one additional daily use of a single spell-like ability granted by the template.

Perhaps the False Keraptis template should have a CR of "Same as the based creature +3" -- which it has now -- "plus 1 for every Y subsumed minds"?

 

[freyar]

Changed the SA and SQ sections as discussed above. Also went with no treasure, alignment same as false K, and "ganglion" for the group.

I think you're right about the CR of the false K depending on the number of Subsumed Minds. We should probably keep track of these comments on the false K template, too, for when Shade gets back.

I do think Subsumed Minds need their own CR, though, since they can be encountered separately. The thing is, unless the false K channels a high-level SLA through them, they're not very challenging. There are a few undead kind of like that we did (gem eyes, I think), which I'll take a look at.

 

[Echohawk]

Yeah, I am persuaded that the Subsumed Minds do need their own CR. In which case, I agree with a CR by HD table for them (probably something closer to that for skeletons, than for zombies). I think their CR should ignore any potential channelled SLAs though, because those attacks should be factored into the False K's CR.

And I really like "ganglion"!

 

[freyar]

That's probably a fair approach. I was thinking of noting that high-level SLAs channeled through the Subsumed Minds (higher than some relation to their HD, I guess) should count as an extra trap or something. what do you think?

 

[Echohawk]

So you mean something like CR = base CR linked to HD + additional CR similar to a trap for any channelled SLA? I'm afraid that sounds overly complex to me. I'm thinking that if the PCs are encountering Subsumed Minds, then there is an encounter with a False Keraptis looming just up the DM's sleeve. In which case factoring the SLAs into the False Keraptis CR is sufficient. If they kill a SLA-channelling Subsumed Mind, they are weakening the relevant False Keraptis, which means that by the time they reach the FK, it has fewer SLAs left to use (and potentially a reduced level from the weakened Heirachical Mind).

 

[freyar]

Yeah, that is a bit tricky, and I see your point. I guess I was thinking that the false K might use the Subsumed Minds as scouts or agents, but they probably aren't much good at that. What if we just use the skeleton table? Want to limit Subsumed Minds to 20 HD, or add CR for additional HD?

HD CR
1/2 1/6
1 1/3
2–3 1
4–5 2
6–7 3
8–9 4
10–11 5
12–14 6
15–17 7
18–20 8

 

[Echohawk]

I think that table is fine as is. If the False Keraptis is subsuming the mind of a >20HD creature, I suspect that the seat of the Heirarchical Mind would probably shift to the more powerful host body, even though the rules don't spell that out as an option. At least, that's how I'd probably handle such an unusual situation in my game.