D&D 5E Convince me to Spend the Money

[SoulsFury]

If causing 12 pages of discussion on an internet message board over a $50 book isn't enough for you to spend $50 on the book, then you probably can't afford the $50 book.

 

[clearstream]

When I sit down to read a book, I seldom ask, "How long did the author labor at making this," when trying to decide whether I like the book.
It is what it is.

I feel like this comment overlooks the role of work in making good rules. The best games have come from excellent teams who have had plenty of time to explore their design space. WotC has been running some of the best game design groups available and certainly they've worked hard in this area - and that does count. They've taken the time to explore other paths, listen to players and advance the game. 'How long did the author labour at making this' is an extremely pertinent question to ask when considering the quality of rules.

I mean, it's almost like saying you don't care how much a player trained, when looking at how good at football she is. Maybe she's unlucky and bad at the game, but even there more training is going to produce a better result than less. Frankly though, you'll only be able to judge the result when you have the books to read. Catch-22. I'm not trying to convince you to buy them - that's entirely your call and probably depends as much on shelf space and funds available than anything else! I just wanted to speak to how you are framing your perceptions.

 

[Wicht]

I feel like this comment overlooks the role of work in making good rules. The best games have come from excellent teams who have had plenty of time to explore their design space. WotC has been running some of the best game design groups available and certainly they've worked hard in this area - and that does count. They've taken the time to explore other paths, listen to players and advance the game. 'How long did the author labour at making this' is an extremely pertinent question to ask when considering the quality of rules.

I appreciate the work that goes into writing books and game material.

I also know that time spent is not necessarily synonymous with quality. If it was, Synnibar would be a masterpiece compared to 5e, where the designers spent only a piddling couple of years to put it together. Indeed, sometimes a persons best work is also their quickest work, when ideas just flow out naturally and intuitively.

But as a consumer, it still doesn't matter. When I am reading the actual material, it has to stand alone, for itself, and the time spent crafting it really becomes irrelevant. Perhaps my favorite part of the book is going to be the one chapter that got cobbled together in two days, rather than the complex chapter that took months to complete? Discussing the time spent is interesting as trivia, or as a marketing ploy, but its not really a factor in whether or not I am going to actually enjoy reading what was written.

 

[Wicht]

The rules are free download as pdf, which you can print ( I printed 2 color copies) ergo the system is free. Why would any company give you a $49 book for free unless you are a reviewer??? Why??

I don't think I ever asked for them to give me one of the books for free.

And, to repeat,... I am not exactly asking whether or not I would like the system. I am asking whether the books are worth the price point. These are not the same questions. I am interested in the books as books.

 

[Wicht]

As an added bonus they even provide a printer friendly copy of the rules to print. Print double sided to save paper and it might cost you ten bucks (including ink) to print the entire game.

I get the feeling that you haven't actually paid attention to anything I have said in this thread regarding my actual desires in the matter. Free stuff is great. But a book is better.

 

[Queer Venger]

I don't think I ever asked for them to give me one of the books for free.

And, to repeat,... I am not exactly asking whether or not I would like the system. I am asking whether the books are worth the price point. These are not the same questions. I am interested in the books as books.

Ok, it only took 124 posts to get to it.

Here is why you should:

The best production values of any PHB, MM or DMG in the history of D&D publishing (whether or not you like 5e)
Clear layouts, amazing art (except for the halfling splat in the pHB, that is pretty awful) and every page in full color
Good quality paper, sturdy binding (unless you got one of those PHBs with crappy binding, which WotC will return for full refund)
Best reason yet:
This edition will win awards, and it should be on the shelf of any rpg'er that loves D&D, in particular the MM and DMG, which are written to aid you in just about any fantasy setting rpg and are excellent reference manuals.

Is that enough??

 

[Wicht]

Ok, it only took 124 posts to get to it.

Is that enough??

Its a start. Thank you.

Ok, it only took 124 posts to get to it.

Perhaps you should reread post #28.

 

[Wicht]

If causing 12 pages of discussion on an internet message board over a $50 book isn't enough for you to spend $50 on the book, then you probably can't afford the $50 book.

That is one of the most subtly illogical non-sequiturs that I have ever seen, and the more I think about it the odder it gets.

Well done.

Also, I find it slightly humorous that it was the first post of page 13. Again, well done.

 

[Hussar]

I get the feeling that you haven't actually paid attention to anything I have said in this thread regarding my actual desires in the matter. Free stuff is great. But a book is better.

Then why can't you have the book? It's simply a matter of printing the thing. I mean, we're not talking about a huge effort here. Probably faster than actually physically going somewhere to buy the book. If you don't like the rules you see in the Basic set, then you save yourself the trouble.

 

[Jester David]

I don't think I ever asked for them to give me one of the books for free.

And, to repeat,... I am not exactly asking whether or not I would like the system. I am asking whether the books are worth the price point. These are not the same questions. I am interested in the books as books.

Are the books worth the $50 price point?

Kinda.

RPG books are on the pricey side. $50 for a full colour 320-page RPG book on quality paper is becoming a fairly good deal. Green Ronin is charging $50 for the Advanced Bestiary and the paper quality of that is lesser. The 13th Age core book is 320-pages and $50+. Numenera is 420-pages for $60.
Paizo's books used to be that size and less, but Paizo has dropped the number of pages for most of their releases in recent memory. So it's $10 more but 64-pages of additional content.
The price/page is well within industry standards. That said, WotC does likely have much higher print runs, so the price *could* be lower. But it wouldn't be *much* lower. Couple cups of coffee. The price of a value meal at a fast food restaurant. Etc.
The books are not dramatically overpriced. And, in a couple years, they'll still be the right price: WotC won't have to adjust the MSRP or risk losing money on sales after a couple years of inflation.

There were some initial concerns about quality, but those seem to have subsided. (And WotC was good about replacing damaged copies anyway.)


But are the books worth the price? That's a personal question.

I'm the proud owner of the Red Dwarf RPG. MSRP of $34.95, and purchased from Paizo.com during a Golem sale for a buck. Yep, $1. They were pretty much giving it away. But, that was pretty much money wasted. I've barely even glanced at the book, having purchased a bunch of other content at the same time that took priority. And the chances that I'd run a game are pretty much zero. If I was going to do something RPG-esque set on the small rouge one, I'd probably use something rules lite like FATE. So, arguably, that book was not worth the buck.
In contrast, the $50 PHB has been read one and a half times and has inspired me to write over a dozen subclasses and dust off my 2-4e campaign setting for a revision. So even though it cost literally 50x as much (58x when you consider USD to CAD) I've gotten much, much, much more value out of the product.

The 5e PHB is an excellent book. The most flavour for races and classes of any RPG book I've ever seen. A solid system. Great art. Lots of character ideas. It's truly an excellent product. The MM is arguably even better. And the DMG is decent.