Cosmology, Powers, and other such Sainted Fare...

[AFGNCAAP]

Ahoy there, salty dogs! What think ye o' the Powers Above 'n' Below? Dost ye pay heed to all the Lords o' th' Sea, or merely take their names in vain?[/pirate]

Man, starting to feel like I'm in a Monty Python skit (esp. the one with BBC newscasters turning into pirates while interviewing the Royal Navy).

This thread was born in part to an issue mentioned in another thread (the limiting humanoid availability one, I believe). It's something that has bothered me, & I was curious about the opinions of others on this board.

What do you think of the vast multitude of deities depicted in D&D settings? Some settings (like Dragonlance) pretty much stick with 1 pantheon of deities for all the races, while others (like Greyhawk to a degree, but definitely Forgotten Realms) have an immense abundance of deities--multiple pantheons for the human cultures (though all humans have the same racial stats), whereas the all of demihuman cultures are stuck with 1 or 2 pantheons (despite the vast amount of subraces/cultures, which are depicted with different racial stats).

Along the same lines, what about the predominance of theistic religions in D&D? Other than OA (which touched on Animism for its shugenja & shamans), many faiths inevitably follow some sort of deity/outsider. Where are the major non-theistic religious faiths? An agnostic religion? A philosophy-based religion (focused more on following a philosophy that the edicts of a deity--the presence of deities may not even be an issue with the faith)? A faith that believes in a supernatural, non-personified force (like nature) rather than a deity with that portfolio?

Though some settings (though not many, IIRC) have a relatively limited pantheon, the majority of them seem to mimic our Earth, with different pantheons/mythologies for different cultures. However, in D&D (for the most part), the deities actually exist. They grant divine powers to their priesthood, and have an effect on the world. Are these deities near-omnipotent beings that can shape the mortal realm, or are they mere "by-products" of faith, only having their position, powers, and standing due to the faith of mortals (and thus, ultimately, at the whim of belief/disbelief of mortalkind)?

I'm not intending to ignite any sort of flamewar, just merely discuss this issue. Just curious to see what views are out there.

[pirate]So loosen yer tongues, scurvy dogs! Let loose a broadside or two, and make yer mark! Yaaaar!

 

[Silveras]

In my world

In my world, there are some groups of deities.

• The Elder Gods - creators of the multiverse, they are not dependant upon the worship of mortals for their power. They embody universal things, like Light, Darkness, Magic and War. Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Orcs all worship these gods to some degree.
• The Younger Gods - Ascended former mortals from prior ages, these gods depend on the worship of their followers to maintain their power. Their portfolios include things like specific types of magic (Illusion, Divination) and specific types of combat (archery, swordsmanship). These are worshipped by the same mix of races as the Elder Gods, plus some Elves.
• The Fey Powers - These are powers that are rivals to the Younger Gods. They are also less mighty than the Elder Gods, but they have great power over nature. The Elves and Humans are their primary worshippers.
• The Elemental Powers - These powers are somewhere below the Elder and Younger Gods in power. They rule the Elemental worlds. Each is part of a triad, with a Good, Neutral, and Evil power for each element. They "serve" the other Gods as administrators for Elemental affairs.
• The Spirit Lords - These are the spirits of ideal animals and plants. They also "serve" the Gods, in their own way, but Shamans see them as being more important than the "civilized" gods.

The primary religious organizations in my world are the Old Faith (Druidic) and the Church of Aventon (Clerical). The Druids are divided into sects that celebrate the various aspects of nature -- good Druids who revere pastoral locations; evil Druids who revere the savagery of predators, and neutral Druids who revere the natural order.

Among Humans, the Clerical Church is also divided into sects. The sects all follow the same main beliefs and tenets, but there are minor differences over emphasis on some points.

• Anti-Magists -- This Fundamentalist (Lawful G/N) sect believes only Clerics should be allowed to wield magic. They fear distrust arcane spellcasters, expecting they will be corrupted by summoned creatures. This sect produces Sacred Exorcists and Church Inquisitors.
• Free-Thinking - A Liberal (Chaotic G/N) sect that believes education in education for all. These priests sponsor arcane spellcasters, and
• Patriarchists - This Fundamentalist (Lawful G/N) sect believes that males have been most influential in the history of the Church, and therefore are (and should be) more important than females.
• Matriarchists - This Liberal (Chaotic G/N) sect believes that females have played as important a part as males in the Church's history. They teach and promote female equality.
• Orthodox - The Moderate (LG/NG/N/CG/NG/CN) core "standard" (and most common) sect of the Church.
• Cult of the Black Flame - A malevolent (Evil) secret offshoot sect that reveres the Gods the other sects merely propitiate.

The Dwarves have two main sects: Traditional and Open. The Traditional sect believes that the Dwarf Churches should be for Dwarves only, and that mixed Dwarf-Human realms are a bad idea. The Open sect believes that mixed realms are a good way to save the declining Dwarf population and that Humans should be allowed to worship in Dwarven Temples.

There's more, of course, but this post has gone on long enough for now.

 

[Pants]

As a general rule, I hate, loathe, and despise racial deities. This is one of my big problems with FR, all the damn racial deities. It especially bothers me when there is, for example, a general, deity of healing and protection, but then the elves, dwarves, gnomes, flumphs, halflings, and humans-who-wear-red-shirts-on-Friday-but-wear-blue-shirts-on-Tuesday all have their own deity of healing and protection. Too much narrowing of a portfolio for my tastes.
As a result, there are no racial deities in my current campaign, everyone worships the same deities, depending on their point of view. Other than that, its the standard D&D pantheon. Also, as another general rule, the gods take very little active interest in the world. There are no chosen, no gods coming down in avatar form all the time or any of that rubbish.

However, in my next campaign world, I intend to use a monotheistice approach. One deity (Anauthor), but the people worship different aspects of the deity, including Protection and Chivalry or Order and Justice, possibly others. Yes, I was influenced by Sepulchrave's Oronthon.
Evil people would most likely either A) Be atheists, B) Worship a skewed vision of the one God, or C) Worship Outer Planar powers (Demon Princes and Archdevils, etc).
Also, I plan on portraying Anauthor as a more aloof deity. The only contact mortals have with him is through his Solar and Planetar servants, so most question his actual existence. Divination spells are routinely answered by Solars or Planetars, if not completely ignored altogether. This could result in all sorts of churchly fun.

 

[Piratecat]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I found deities and creation myths to be incredibly intimidating. I didn't actually develop them until 4 years into the campaign. Why? The reasons you folks list - too many, and the deities you have make such a fundamental impact on the nature of society that I was afraid of screwing stuff up.

 

[MaxKaladin]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I found deities and creation myths to be incredibly intimidating. I didn't actually develop them until 4 years into the campaign. Why? The reasons you folks list - too many, and the deities you have make such a fundamental impact on the nature of society that I was afraid of screwing stuff up.

That's one reason I went with a monotheism for my campaign's main religion and why I made most of the rest so that they would have small numbers of major powers. The most I think I have in any religion right now is five.

 

[Larry Fitz]

In Twin Crowns we have 12 Gods, 12. Not 12 for each race, or 12 with a half dozen demi-gods, 12. Of course many races give the gods their own attributes, just as various real world cultures have. 12 Gods with portfolios that set them opposite one of the other gods, it works very well actually. Amongst the 12 deities there are individual sects and orders that emphasize specific aspects of the deity's worship, and while this may lead to political maneuvering within a religion for affluence and resources, it rarely leads to direct open opposition.

 

[Dirigible]

I prefer the overlapping deities method; there's one god of war, but each culture has a different name, image, and set of beliefs. Under this schema, Zeus, Odin, Wotan and Smitty would all be the same deity with different hats.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I found deities and creation myths to be incredibly intimidating. I didn't actually develop them until 4 years into the campaign. Why? The reasons you folks list - too many, and the deities you have make such a fundamental impact on the nature of society that I was afraid of screwing stuff up.

I had the same problem... then I got BOoK OF THE RIGHTEOUS, and all my problems melted away ! It restored my confidance, impressed my friends, and absorbed vast qantities of that weird blue liquid !

 

[blackshirt5]

in my Age of Legends setting, there's a very small number of true gods, but then there are a large number of "small gods", spirits and demons and such that form cults around them or that draw power from cairns and other sacred places to give themselves a small measure of divinity. Even mortals can do this if they know how to. However, these are generally no more than cults(although some cults are very large, and can even encompass an entire city that worships their protector and patron demon).