Cost for Damage-Increasing Item

[Elephant]

There's a lot of discussion over in the Monk's Belt thread about what the AC improvement from a Monk's Belt should be. That got me thinking about approaching the problem from the other end. Logically, the Monk's belt should be one and a half times the cost of an unarmed damage increase plus a fair cost for the AC improvement.

What would a fair cost be for a magic item that increases a medium character's unarmed damage from 1d3 nonlethal to 1d8?

 

[Terath Ninir]

Hmm. Does it transform it to lethal damage, or keep it subdual? That is the unclear part of the item, and a very important question. The item would be knocking the damage up 4 die types; conversion to lethal damage would make it worth more.

If it stays nonlethal, the average damage goes up from 2 to 4.5. Using the 1000 x bonus squared method, that gives a cost of 6,250. That leaves the question of how much lethal damage is worth. Subdual damage is a lot more potent than most people think it is, so I wouldn't make the change worth *that* much more. Maybe 1 1/2 times. Call it 9,375 gp -- rounded to 9,000 gp for a less ugly number.

Yes, this is going to end up producing a final number, with AC bonus, higher than the official price, most likely, despite my contention that the item is priced fine as-is, with the Wis+1 AC bonus. Math only takes you so far -- then logic and common sense has to kick in. I don't agree with the math on most items, for that matter.

 

[ARandomGod]

Hmm. Does it transform it to lethal damage, or keep it subdual? That is the unclear part of the item, and a very important question. The item would be knocking the damage up 4 die types; conversion to lethal damage would make it worth more.

If it stays nonlethal, the average damage goes up from 2 to 4.5. Using the 1000 x bonus squared method, that gives a cost of 6,250. That leaves the question of how much lethal damage is worth. Subdual damage is a lot more potent than most people think it is, so I wouldn't make the change worth *that* much more. Maybe 1 1/2 times. Call it 9,375 gp -- rounded to 9,000 gp for a less ugly number.

Yes, this is going to end up producing a final number, with AC bonus, higher than the official price, most likely, despite my contention that the item is priced fine as-is, with the Wis+1 AC bonus. Math only takes you so far -- then logic and common sense has to kick in. I don't agree with the math on most items, for that matter.

For common sense, I think that instead of pricing it as four dice higher, you have to price it similiar to an item that does d8 lethal damage... so similiar to a longsword.

 

[Terath Ninir]

For common sense, I think that instead of pricing it as four dice higher, you have to price it similiar to an item that does d8 lethal damage... so similiar to a longsword.

I'm not sure what you mean, there. A longsword costs 15 gp, or 315 gp if it's masterwork. If you mean like a magic longsword, then 2,315 gp.

Hmm. If you mean as a +1 longsword, that might actually be a bit more logical than what I came up with. 2,315 gp seems like a more reasonable price for the true benefit of the ability.

 

[ARandomGod]

I'm not sure what you mean, there. A longsword costs 15 gp, or 315 gp if it's masterwork. If you mean like a magic longsword, then 2,315 gp.

Hmm. If you mean as a +1 longsword, that might actually be a bit more logical than what I came up with. 2,315 gp seems like a more reasonable price for the true benefit of the ability.

Well, to be fair, damage wise I think you have to price it as a +1 shortsword instead. d6+1 being the same average damage wise as d6. But now we're splitting hairs.

 

[Terath Ninir]

The difference in price between a +1 shortsword and longsword is insignificant.

 

[Elephant]

Cyberzombie, besides which, the +1 throws it off. We're comparing 1-3 damage to 1-8 damage, not 1-3 vs. 2-9.

Hmm...the place where extra unarmed damage REALLY comes in handy is in a grapple. A medium character can only come by that kind of damage via Monk levels or a Monk's belt, not by attacking with any weapon.

Let's alter the magic item creation rules for the sake of argument. Assume there is a magical ability that increases the damage of a weapon by one die size. Thus, you could have an Ensorcelled Dagger doing 1d6 damage. What should this ability be worth? +1? +2?

Further, assume that you can make a magic weapon with a magic ability and no enhancement bonus. Thus, instead of a +1 Flaming Longsword, you could simply make a +0 Flaming Longsword.

Combine the two, and I think a fairly good approximation for the value of the unarmed damage increase can be found.

 

[Darkness]

Assume there is a magical ability that increases the damage of a weapon by one die size. Thus, you could have an Ensorcelled Dagger doing 1d6 damage. What should this ability be worth? +1? +2?

Flaming (and its cousins) adds +1d6 damage.
With some limitations: It's energy damage, so resistance/immunity to the energy type protects from it. Further, this 1d6 isn't multiplied on a crit.
On the plus side, a few critters might be especially vulnerable to it and DR doesn't protect against it.
This is a +1 ability.

OTOH, an increase by one die size* gives us:
Dagger: 1d4 --> 1d6
Greatsword: 2d6 --> 3d6

(*Assuming you're talking about using the standard rules for this kind of thing.)