cost of buildings

[abri]

So looking at stronghold builder's guide yesterday (not sure if it's the correct name, I'm in my lab right now) found it quite nice.
Well that is untill I started calculating the cost of various building:
1) First example: a small weaponsmith forge and shop. It takes two spaces and HAS to be made in masonry (heaven help the fool who try to make it in wood). Cost around 6000 GP
That rather a LOT: the weaponsmith would have to make and sell more than 600 long swords (at 10GP profit per sword) before he can pay that back!
Also it is way over the cash limit for anything but a small city!
2) a traditional medieval town house: 1space worth of bedroom suite and one space of shop.
Cost: easily over 5000 GP!

Ok, I know we shouldn't compare to real medieval cost,
but that's 100 pounds of gold! That's the definition of a king's ransom! (Ps: the biggest ransom ever paid in medieval time according to legends was for king Richard and it was 10000 marks if I remember correctly, that's 800000 sp or 80000GP)
I see now why there are L20 commoners: before they can be a rutabaga farmer, they need to go and kill a dragon to have the money for the farm!

 

[Darkness]

(Ps: the biggest ransom ever paid in medieval time according to legends was for king Richard and it was 10000 marks if I remember correctly, that's 800000 sp or 80000GP)

It's true that the ransom for Richard was extremely high; my ancestors sure buit a lot of castles with that money!

Of course, by D&D prices, they probably couldn't have afforded that, LOL.

 

[kreynolds]

1) First example: a small weaponsmith forge and shop. It takes two spaces and HAS to be made in masonry (heaven help the fool who try to make it in wood). Cost around 6000 GP

You're pricing a Fancy Shop with a Fancy Forge, so yeah, it's gonna be expensive.

That rather a LOT: the weaponsmith would have to make and sell more than 600 long swords (at 10GP profit per sword) before he can pay that back!
Also it is way over the cash limit for anything but a small city!

Not at all. A basic shop and forge will only run you 900gp, just over the limits of a small town, but reasonably so. The only difference between the fancy smithy and the basic smithy is that the fancy smithy grants a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft (armorsmithing, blacksmithing, and weaponsmithing) checks, while the basic smithy does not.

 

[abri]

Nope, you are forgetting the price of the walls! 900Gp only buy the inside furnitures of the forge and shop, not the building itself!
And that's the building that is out of price: more than 2000 GP per space!

 

[kreynolds]

Nope, you are forgetting the price of the walls! 900Gp only buy the inside furnitures of the forge and shop, not the building itself!
And that's the building that is out of price: more than 2000 GP per space!

I didn't forget the price of the walls. I'm just saying that the prices aren't bad. Remember, the stronghold book is mostly meant for players, and they're gonna have a whole bunch of cash.

A commoner or expert smithy might not have much character wealth, but it's safe to say that he doesn't actually own his smithy/shop, as he more than likely rents it out from the city or another organization. An upstart business usually starts out renting, not purchasing outright, unless you get a loan. Also, the smithy of the city probably gets property discounts as well. Who knows, he might make weapons and armor for the city guards and the company that built his shop.

 

[LGodamus]

also he can barter with friends and other businesses in the area .....remember 30%of total cost is labor which he very well could get for free not to mention negotiating material prices. I personally think that the prices listed in the stronghold builders guide are for Players who just say this is what I want and buy it outright not for the character or npc who haggles over prices and does alot of the work himself.

 

[Gizzard]

I'm pretty happy with the SBG rules. They are a bit fast & loose, so I wouldnt expect them to line up correctly in some cases -- most notably the far ends of the spectrum (really expensive things, really cheap things). Still, they are inventive and easily applied, and they cover a lot of ground. Thats all good to me.

Random thought: I dont think any blacksmith in medeaval times just walked up with a bag of gold and bought his shop outright. He probably slowly acreted the necessary materials over the course of time; building a house himself with the help of neighbors, trading a cow for an anvil and being given a hammer as a gift when he left his apprenticeship, etc.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

You can't really equate a fantasy realm to the middle ages either. I like to think of the fantasy worlds actually more like modern times, where magic takes the place of technology. If you think of it like that, the prices might not seem so unreasonable. In today's times, you can get a bank loan to take care of these types of costs, in a fantasy world, I would imagine there are plenty of money lenders and investers out there, along with many a retired adventurer who would be willing to front the costs as an investment. There werent many venture capitalists in the middle ages, but I could see plenty of them existing in a fantasy world.

TLG

 

[Gromm]

The smith probably doesn't own his own smithy. He probably has a land lord (a noble) who he pays taxes and rent to. Now if he was say a former adventurer he might own his own shop, but it probably wouldn't be the norm.
Most hamlets probably make thier own buildings anyway, so all you'd pay for was the supplies, and in most cases you could get it yourself (chop down trees, etc). Most adventurers aren't going to hand build a castle (or even an outhouse) so they have to pay for the materials, the labor, etc.
Still from what I hear the prices seem a bit high (don't have the book myself).

 

[RogueJK]

Now if he was say a former adventurer he might own his own shop, but it probably wouldn't be the norm.

Actually, the "former adventurer who has settled down to make an honest living" is a staple of the fantasy genre. You never know when the local blacksmith, farmer, or shopkeeper might unsheath his sword from over the mantle or unpack his spellbook from under the bed and head off on another quest.

Granted, as you said, this wouldn't be the norm, but I'll bet that it's somewhat common.