Cost of Core Books PDFs

[Obryn]

No, it means that the market bears it out that this is the cost. That's the way markets work. Just because it is too expensive for you has no bearing on if they are actually too expensive.

Bingo.

Gaming PDFs are not a staple of life. It's not gas, food, clothing, or housing.

If the price is too high, don't buy it. There may be others who find the price reasonable - and they can buy it.

-O

 

[jdrakeh]

No, it means that the market bears it out that this is the cost. That's the way markets work. Just because it is too expensive for you has no bearing on if they are actually too expensive.

Dude! Look at your response for a minute. The guy is arguing that his personal preferences dictate world markets. No amount of rational explanation or elucidation of basic economics on your part will ever convince him otherwise. You cannot win this argument.

 

[El Mahdi]

Those that claim the PDF's are less than the full price of the books are wrong. I paid approximately $70 for the complete collection, including overnight shipping (that means gasoline - "the" highest expense for any industry). The PDF bundle costs $74.85. Yes, that's less than the $34.95 "full price" for the book, however, if you actually paid $34.95 for each of your books than you are either a fool or just too lazy to find the deals (as in too lazy to do a 2 minute google search). In actuality they are asking for as much, or more, as what the hardcover collection cost.

I understand that people buy PDF's for different reasons, but there is no way anyone can say, especially after seeing the polls here on ENworld, that the people who buy PDF's "as there only or main copy", are anything but the minority of sales of these products. The majority of people who want the PDF's want them as a simple, portable, searchable "companion" to the hardcopy. The argument that people can buy the PDF and print their own, thereby circumventing the printing process, doesn't make sense. There is no denying that printing a PDF, at the same quality as a hardcopy, would cost as much as (or likely more than) the cost of the original hardcopy.

We all know the printing process is done nowadays using PDF's (as seen by the illegally leaked copies). It costs WoTC virtually nothing in development costs to sell the PDF because THE DEVELOPMENT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. After all the talk and promises from WoTC about cheap PDF's (in whatever form or avenue they decided on eventually releasing them in), to have the PDF's at this price is a slap in the face to their consumers. If this is some kind of punishment to the world in general due to the leaked PDF's, then WoTC should be ashamed of themselves. More specifically, Scott Rouse should be ashamed of himself. As Senior Brand Manager I believe he has final say about this. This to me, is just one more disjointed, inconsistent line of statements about what we will do for your customers only to be let down again. (On a personal aside, this makes me wonder if we can belive WoTC about their claims and promises for DDI - but thats another topic).

I don't care what other retailers sell PDF's for, I don't care how much 3.x PDF's sold for, I don't care what gamestores and book retailers feel about the price of PDF's, the bottom line is that these PDF's are Massively overpriced (as are almost all PDF's) and I will not "BUY" them. Despite the illegal copies of the PDF's that are available out in the ether, I was fully prepared to buy the PDF's as a companion to my hardcopies at a reasonable $10-$15. WoTC, listen up and listen well, you are very close to losing a customer, and I doubt I'm the only one.

 

[Darkwolf71]

Already addressed. Read before you post, please. It will save us both some time.



Also. . . already adressed.

I read the entire thread before I posted my personal experience in voicing complaints about PDF pricing. Is there a time frame after which commemts are no longer needed? Or you just sore that so many came forward to say you were wrong?

Why should your opinion of a "reasonable price" matter more than WotC's?

I mean, it's their product... If their price is too high, people won't buy it. That's its own consequence.


Why, because I think businesses have a right to set prices for the stuff they sell?

And... shockingly, I'm not remotely upset.

-O

Why should you be upset? I didn't call you a fanboy or anything else, I don't think I've ever called anyone that. I was observing that someone might. As for my opinion vs. WotC's, Never said it mattered more. It only matters that I won't buy the PDFs for the current price. If the books manage to sell well to other people, then obviously my opinion doesn't matter much at all. Guess what? I'm ok with that. I still won't buy them, myself.

So, out of curiosity, what do comments about PDF products not being "real" or valuable, or the only costs associated with RPG production being printiing and binding make you look like? That's a rhetorical question, BTW.

What does the fact that I never made any of those comments make you look like? That's a rhetorical question, BTW.

 

[Darkwolf71]

We all know the printing process is done nowadays using PDF's (as seen by the illegally leaked copies). It costs WoTC virtually nothing in development costs to sell the PDF because THE DEVELOPMENT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. After all the talk and promises from WoTC about cheap PDF's (in whatever form or avenue they decided on eventually releasing them in), to have the PDF's at this price is a slap in the face to their consumers. If this is some kind of punishment to the world in general due to the leaked PDF's, then WoTC should be ashamed of themselves. More specifically, Scott Rouse should be ashamed of himself. As Senior Brand Manager I believe he has final say about this. This to me, is just one more disjointed, inconsistent line of statements about what we will do for your customers only to be let down again. (On a personal aside, this makes me wonder if we can belive WoTC about their claims and promises for DDI - but thats another topic).

To play devil's advocate for a minute, there are some costs involved to make the PDFs more 'user friendly'. Adding the bookmarks and whatever links are included did take some time and effort. Not enough to justify full price, but it's not like they just used the same unchanged PDFs that they sent to the printers.

 

[Crothian]

Those that claim the PDF's are less than the full price of the books are wrong.

Wizards does not control how much the print books are discounted by retailers. Also, just because you got them for cheaper doesn't mean everyone can, and those that cannot are not fools. More then likely, then are non US citizens and getting the books is much more expensive for them.

 

[El Mahdi]

Except that the illegal PDF's were already searchable and "user friendly". Or so I've heard.

 

[SteveC]

I just wanted to say that unless something significant has changed, the cost for these PDFs has nothing to do with market forces, because the companies involved don't expect or even want to sell many of them.

WotC and White Wolf don't want to undercut the physical book sales, so they're really only marketing these books to people who can't get the books the traditional way.

If they really expected to sell any serious quantity of the books, the price would be drastically lower, or the quality would be higher. Companies like Green Ronin or RPGObjects can charge a fair bit for their PDFs, because they are a value added service. My True20 PDF was the best purchase I've ever made for the line considering how often it has been updated, ditto with Blood and Fists and other D20 Modern books.

WotC is not serious about the PDF market as of yet, but I hope they do get so. For me, a reasonable price and updates would cause me to buy PDFs for all of their books. Full price with a ten dollar "sale?" Not so much.

--Steve

 

[El Mahdi]

Wizards does not control how much the print books are discounted by retailers. Also, just because you got them for cheaper doesn't mean everyone can, and those that cannot are not fools. More then likely, then are non US citizens and getting the books is much more expensive for them.

I didn't intend to dis overseas players or customers. For US customers, my statements about how much the books cost holds true. However, I would think that with the value of the dollar recently, most foriegn buyers (although not all) would probably get a pretty good deal buying from US internet retailers, although I'm sure this would vary from country to country.

 

[jdrakeh]

Those that claim the PDF's are less than the full price of the books are wrong. I paid approximately $70 for the complete collection, including overnight shipping (that means gasoline - "the" highest expense for any industry).

You did not pay full retail price for the printed books. The PDFs cost less than full retail price. Your discounted purchase does not invalidate this fact.

[Edit: Not a single brick and mortar retailer in the greater Colorado Springs area, from Borders and Barnes & Noble to the seven local game stores, sold the 4e core books for anything less than full retail price. Your assertion that "most" retailers are selling the books at a deep discount is not supported by facts. You seem to run afoul of facts quite often. Don't you hate it when little things like facts get in the way of a good, baseless, crazy rant?]