Cost of Core Books PDFs

[jdrakeh]

Professionally printed books with good bindings have utility. It's a different utility than the PDF, but still utility.

Perhaps, but every reason that you previously cited for prefering hardcopy books over PDFs had nothing to do with utility and everything to do with aesthetics

 

[Darkwolf71]

Not to mention that some of us gamers follow the law and dislike being thieves. I could download the PDFs for free, but since I wear a white hat I'll purchase them instead.

As I've said in various PDF threads over time, I'd love to buy PDFs from the source. But I refuse to pay full price for an electronic copy of a book when I already own a physical copy. Buying a book twice is just not responsible spending.

 

[portermj]

Why should your opinion of a "reasonable price" matter more than WotC's?

I didn't phrase my response right, I don't think WOTC thinks it is really a reasonable price, it is the price they are setting as fan service to the FLGS.

As others have pointed out WOTC at one point was planning to sell PDFs to book owners for about a buck. That is a $20 difference from what they are offering for a core book. If they were really trying to set a price that they think would recoup the costs of developing the product and distributing the pdfs and generate a profit, they difference wouldn't be this great.

 

[portermj]

Take a look at what other companies are charging for PDFs of books. Wizards prices are not out of line with the current market.

I'm looking at the Monte Cook products and the mode discount for their pdf's is easily around 50% if not more.

 

[Destil]

Why XML in particular?

For me, PDF is the way to go. If it was as novel or a short story, sure, the optimum format might have been .RTF or .DOC. But RPG books are complex things. You have tables. And artwork.

PDFs at least have usable search functions and bookmarks. And at this point in time, is a competent transition model for people who've grown accustomed to print.

A wiki-format or d20srd.org -type format might in the long run be more efficient but that involves significant work on their part.

And yes, some people do print out the PDFs.

Anything more flexible than PDF would make me happy. RTD or doc would annoy me just as much, as you're trading one of the few strengths of PDF (good formating) for nothing.

And when I say XML I mean markup, something that's very well hyperlinked and can be used in a browser or even have an API build around it. Mouse-over a condition like 'Prone' in a power statblock and you get a description of being prone, click on it and you're looking at the full entry. Being able to feed it into a Wiki or something for ease of houseruling would be idea, but I'm really just saying HTML. Something that can be either an E-Book or D20srd.org.

Personally, I think they stick to PDF because of market inertia and a lack of understanding of digital media. The ability to use a more flexible / open / powerful format for information should be a real draw of going digital. But what I want is hard to even describe, while 'PDF' brings an image of a scanned book to mind.

That and an illogical fear of piracy, given that it's no harder or easier to pirate than PDF.

And as far as printing in black and white: then why not offer a nice high contrast pure black/white version. No art to drain ink, or even better some black and white line are like WAR's work in the 3.0 splatbooks. Downloading something that prints in greyscale poorly is a bad move if you just want printed info. This is the sort of weakness of the PDF format that drives me mad.

Again, if I'm buying digital media, I want something that uses the advantages of digital media. Not a scan of a physical product with some bookmarks.

 

[Voadam]

So? That just means too many people are willing to pay too much for PDF's. Besides, I do know. There are some Green Ronin PDF's I am willing to buy, Goodman, and a couple of other companies.

Most companies are charging too much, which is why most of the PDF's I have were either free, or were offered up in some great ENWorld sales.

I have not bought a single Necroamncer PDF, for example, and I have been accused of being a Necromancer fan boy. The only one I have come close to buying is one I got "free" for pre ordering RA:R.

Check out Necromancer's PDF selection again. Some are comparatively expensive around 30% off MSRP for the print books, most are 50% off the MSRP. Tome of Horrors Revised is one of the best OGL pdf deals out there, $10 for a several hundred page (400+?) monster book.

Other good deals:

Fantasy Flight Games non Midnight pdfs are mostly $5 each for what were 176 page hardcover books. Some are $10 for big flagship ones like the Dawnforge and Dragonstar Setting core books.

White Wolf's Scarred Lands, Player's Guide, Relics and Rituals, and d20 Trinity books are all $10 or $5 as well, though a bunch of Scarred Lands ones are scanned and not original file ones. The Divine and the Defeated for $5 is a great book at a great bargain.

Goodman games' DCCs are currently at 50% off their normal (fairly expensive) internet price, so the 700 page Castle Whiterock is currently $30, the 400+ page World Campaign Setting is $20, and the two 256 page multi adventures The Adventure Begins and the The Adventure Continues are $10 each.

 

[wayne62682]

I've worked for a small publishing company, and it cost us barely anything to do the PDF (staff costs is it, basically). The money was made in the hardcopy, and the hardcopy was only expensive because of the high cost to have it published, bound, etc. and made ready to ship.

$25 for a PDF is ridiculous, bottom line. Hell, $15 is pushing it IMO. It's just the typical WotC scam to try and weasel more money out of people. It might sound harsh, but the truth hurts sometimes.

 

[SteveC]

I didn't phrase my response right, I don't think WOTC thinks it is really a reasonable price, it is the price they are setting as fan service to the FLGS.

As others have pointed out WOTC at one point was planning to sell PDFs to book owners for about a buck. That is a $20 difference from what they are offering for a core book. If they were really trying to set a price that they think would recoup the costs of developing the product and distributing the pdfs and generate a profit, they difference wouldn't be this great.

I think your post has the right of it. We went from free SRD materials in 3X, to a "nominal cost" if you purchased the book, to ... more than many people paid for the hardcovers. Is it so hard to see why people are disappointed?

WotC doesn't seriously plan to sell more than a handful of books this way, they're pricing it so as not to upset retailers rather than to be something fans are expected to buy in any real quantity.

--Steve

 

[Belen]

The cost/profit margins on PDF versus a print book will never justify greater than a 50% sale price to me. Its pure greed, IMO.

From a publisher perspective, the costs for e-only and print are very close. On average, an e-only version is 15% cheaper than a print version and that disparity is rapidly closing as technology gets more expensive.

The fact of the matter is that e-copies cost money to produce and maintain. Wizards can be faulted for producing crappy e-copies. Honestly, their PDFs have very little value, but it does cost money.

In any event, e-copies are best when they are e-only/ print-on-demand. Having a PDF/ web version and a print version is tricky. Everyone is looking for the right business model on that front. There is no way to get solid data on whether e-copies negatively impact print sales and it scares the out of those of us who have print books.

 

[Belen]

I've worked for a small publishing company, and it cost us barely anything to do the PDF (staff costs is it, basically). The money was made in the hardcopy, and the hardcopy was only expensive because of the high cost to have it published, bound, etc. and made ready to ship.

$25 for a PDF is ridiculous, bottom line. Hell, $15 is pushing it IMO. It's just the typical WotC scam to try and weasel more money out of people. It might sound harsh, but the truth hurts sometimes.

Yes and no. A PDF, absent the print, would only be around 15% cheaper to produce and that gap is rapidly closing as technology costs increase. There is also the issue of cheap PDFs undercutting your print sales. A lot of publishers worry about this and we price e-copies with this in mind.

This is exactly what Wizards is doing.