Cost of Core Books PDFs

[Scott_Rouse]

I've worked for a small publishing company, and it cost us barely anything to do the PDF (staff costs is it, basically). The money was made in the hardcopy, and the hardcopy was only expensive because of the high cost to have it published, bound, etc. and made ready to ship.

$25 for a PDF is ridiculous, bottom line. Hell, $15 is pushing it IMO. It's just the typical WotC scam to try and weasel more money out of people. It might sound harsh, but the truth hurts sometimes.

Mom's basement = low overhead, thats why the PDF pricing was so low, plus the writers were hacks so the content wasn't so good anyhow. Sorry to sound so harsh, but the truth hurts sometimes.

Joking aside, small publishers are in a very different boat than WOTC. They have different cost structures, profit requirements, etc as I said here

With a $34.95 MSRP 300 page RPG book the printing cost is less than 10% of the cover price.

The point I am trying to make is the majority of the cost of a book is in pre-manufacturing development. Art, words, design, editing, and type-setting plus A&P (advertising & promotion) and general overheads (our building, support departments like human resources, customer service, legal and finance) are all costs that get factored into a books P&L (profit & loss) before the actual MCOGs (manufacturing cost of goods) are calculated. Plus we are a business and have profit margin requirements as is the sales partner.

 

[ki11erDM]

The point I am trying to make is the majority of the cost of a book is in pre-manufacturing development. Art, words, design, editing, and type-setting plus A&P (advertising & promotion) and general overheads (our building, support departments like human resources, customer service, legal and finance) are all costs that get factored into a books P&L (profit & loss) before the actual MCOGs (manufacturing cost of goods) are calculated. Plus we are a business and have profit margin requirements as is the sales partner.

Thats crazy talk! How dare you want to pay your employees and provide value to your share holders!

 

[Darkwolf71]

Thats crazy talk! How dare you want to pay your employees and provide value to your share holders!

Again with the snarkyness. Can't you simply say, 'Thank you Scott, for coming in and explaining WotCs view on the matter'?


Scott. Is there any possibility of managing 'some' kind of way to allow those of us who prefer print books to aquire the PDFs to supplement? Even if it's some kind of only availably online from your PDF distributers? Like, say "Buy the PDF, get a Dead Tree copy for only $5.00"?
(BTW: Thank you Scott, for coming in and explaining WotCs view on the matter.)

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Again with the snarkyness. Can't you simply say, 'Thank you Scott, for coming in and explaining WotCs view on the matter'?


Scott. Is there any possibility of managing 'some' kind of way to allow those of us who prefer print books to aquire the PDFs to supplement? Even if it's some kind of only availably online from your PDF distributers? Like, say "Buy the PDF, get a Dead Tree copy for only $5.00"?
(BTW: Thank you Scott, for coming in and explaining WotCs view on the matter.)

I don't mind the snark, I can tell it is all in good fun.

We had discussed that very possibility as it became clear that the code in book idea was not going to work. Part of me really liked the idea of turning the model on it's head and selling PDFs at full pop and delivering a physical book as an add on. It would eliminate the fraud issues and allow us to combine a digital and "analog" product in one sale. Something we could not figure out and/or make cost effective going the other way (analog w/digital).

That is something to consider for the future but as others have pointed out we do a have a large network of distributors and retailers and we are in a difficult position of needing to straddle the line between multi-tiered brick & mortar channels and more progressive forms of distribution.

 

[Obryn]

Again with the snarkyness. Can't you simply say, 'Thank you Scott, for coming in and explaining WotCs view on the matter'

That would be boring.

-O

 

[Darkwolf71]

I don't mind the snark, I can tell it is all in good fun.

We had discussed that very possibility as it became clear that the code in book idea was not going to work. Part of me really liked the idea of turning the model on it's head and selling PDFs at full pop and delivering a physical book as an add on. It would eliminate the fraud issues and allow us to combine a digital and "analog" product in one sale. Something we could not figure out and/or make cost effective going the other way (analog w/digital).

That is something to consider for the future but as others have pointed out we do a have a large network of distributors and retailers and we are in a difficult position of needing to straddle the line between multi-tiered brick & mortar channels and more progressive forms of distribution.

Well, we already know that the PDF only crowd is a pretty small niche of the community. Do you think the Book + PDF group is really that much larger? I mean, sure it may be a large percentage of the forum goers but they (we) are just a fraction of gamers already. I just don't see how it would hurt B&M sales anymore than Amazon etc. already do.

 

[sjmiller]

Scott, thanks for replying to this thread, I know there's a lot of heated talk about this topic. It's pretty brave of you to come in here with all the anti-WotC sentiment here.

While I respect your assertion that the cost of the pdf is not out of line with the production costs and profit margins needed, I hope you can see where people are coming from on the other side of the issue. I did a bit of checking online for prices of the physical book, which has an MSRP of $34.95. Here is what I found:

• Amazon - $23.07
• Barnes & Noble - $25.16
• RPG Shop - $29.29
• Overstock - $21.92

Most of these places offer free shipping at that cost, so that has not been factored into the total cost. With the pdf running at $24.95, you can see where a number of people would be upset at cost of the pdf. For a product which is generally, but not always, viewed as a supplement to the physical book, it's hard to justify paying more for the pdf than the physical book. You yourself stated that the book costs more to produce than the pdf. Since we know you are not selling the books to Amazon, B&N, and the like at a loss, the cost of the pdf becomes a bit confusing.

I just thought I would bring this up, so you can see where others are coming from, and why the price of the pdf is a "no sale" point for a number of people. Thanks again for your time.

 

[ki11erDM]

I don't mind the snark, I can tell it is all in good fun.

At least someone understands me /cry

 

[Darkwolf71]

At least someone understands me /cry

Actually, your snark was pretty tame. I've been dealing with a lot of rabid posters this week, no fault of yours. My apologies for overreacting.

 

[SteveC]

Another problem with the "PDFs should cost as much as print books," argument is that it doesn't take the distribution system into account.

In the FLGS model, WotC sells to a distributor, who in turn sells to your FLGS who sells it to you. Each step along that chain requires profit, but a PDF distribution takes at least one level of distribution out of the equation. I also can't seriously believe that RPGNow takes as much of a cut as a distributor does.

In the end, if you need to sell these books at or near cover price to make any money, you're saying that a PDF distribution is significantly more expensive than print. Is that what's being claimed?

--Steve