Cost of Core Books PDFs

[jdrakeh]

The most serious is the need for a computer to view them on.

I have a stack of printed PDF products that refutes this fallacy, as common as it may be. As I mention elsewhere, a big advantage of PDFs is that they can be printed and bound in a 'lay flat' format, allowing them to. . . er. . . lay flat -- something that hardcover and perfectbound books just won't due, unless you break the spines. That said, I understand that this isn't of value to everybody.

Re: Complaints. I simply find it odd that almost nobody complained about WotC charging full cover price for their D&D 3x PDF products (which they have been doing for years now), but as soon as they charged less than full cover price for their D&D 4e products, a small group of people more or less went into meltdown mode. Why is that, I wonder? Is charging consumers less money suddenly a bad thing?

 

[malraux]

Well, Crothian (in the other PDF thread) has said the new PDFs are copy/paste enabled. If so, then the PDF of the Monster Manual is probably worth more than the physical book--just paste all monsters for each encounter into a document & you're good to go (no page flipping!).

I'd probably put Adventurer's Vault in that as well. As a DM, the ability to cut and paste into an email to give details of what a player found is really handy. For anything I'm gonna reference more than read, an electronic version is at least equivalent in personal value.

 

[Unearthly]

Re: Complaints. I simply find it odd that almost nobody complained about WotC charging full cover price for their D&D 3x PDF products (which they have been doing for years now), but as soon as they charged less than full cover price for their D&D 4e products, a small group of people more or less went into meltdown mode. Why is that, I wonder? Is charging consumers less money suddenly a bad thing?

Maybe they weren't interested in PDFs before. Maybe they weren't even in D&D before. What kind of argument is this? I don't see how the 3.X prices are relevant at all. All that should be relevant is the price versus the value of these 4th edition PDFs.

Anyway, I think the price could be a bit lower, as mentioned buying the hardcovers from amazon is cheaper ($22 per book, currently).

 

[jdrakeh]

What kind of argument is this?

It's not an argument. It's an observation.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Does anybody know how much of the price of the book is based on the physical costs of printing?

If the retail price of a book the cost of paper printing is only 20%, then it's pretty reasonable for WoTC to charge a discounted rate.

I know some fans are saying they wouldn't pay more than 50% of the MSRP for a PDF, but if printing is only say 15%-25% of the cost, is it reasonable for them to discount it by 50% and lose profit?

Particularly to a electronic format (assuming no DRM) that can be illegally copied very easilly?

 

[SSquirrel]

We're in total agreement here. Also, worth noting is the fact that the current PDF prices for the 4e core books are comparable to the same rates offered by other 'A-List' publishers on new PDF product. It's certainly not as if WotC is the only publisher with expensive PDF products.

It's funny, really, because there was almost no complaining about WotC charging full cover price for PDFs of their entire 3x line, but now that they've discounted the 4e core books to sell them for far less than their typical going rate, a bunch of people are suddenly up in arms.

Some people are trying awfully hard to be outraged, I think.

I agree the new prices are in line, but I really have to wonder if you spent a good chunk of time during 3E in a coma or something. I heard complaints about it frequently, both here on ENWorld and on Monte's boards. PDFs would probably be more useful to me if I owned a laptop. The new prices are a chunk lower than full book price, ie the old 3E pdf prices, so definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[jdrakeh]

I agree the new prices are in line, but I really have to wonder if you spent a good chunk of time during 3E in a coma or something.

I wasn't in a coma, but I was working 60+ hours a week, so it's possible that the screaming took place during my work shifts

 

[mechascorpio]

Does anybody know how much of the price of the book is based on the physical costs of printing?

If the retail price of a book the cost of paper printing is only 20%, then it's pretty reasonable for WoTC to charge a discounted rate.

I know some fans are saying they wouldn't pay more than 50% of the MSRP for a PDF, but if printing is only say 15%-25% of the cost, is it reasonable for them to discount it by 50% and lose profit?

Particularly to a electronic format (assuming no DRM) that can be illegally copied very easilly?

My understanding of the print world when it comes to volumes as large as 4E must have been is that the cost of paper, printing and distribution would probably have come out to be about 10% of the MSRP, tops. So about $3.50 - $4 per unit. The rest of it is development, marketing, overhead and so on - past, present and future. What's left is profit. Which at the discounted price (which helps guarantee those volumes in the first place) is probably a very few dollars per book.

If all that is true, then it's probably unrealistic to have expected electronic versions to be less than $20. Someone somewhere made a calculation as to how much the market would support, how much it might impact sales of physical product, weighed it against deals made with distributors of the physical product, and how much electronic sales would be expected to contribute to the overall bottom line. Whether or not it's the right math, who knows, but I'm sure there is some math that went into these decisions.

 

[Treebore]

I am curious as to why people think PDF's have anywhere close to the same value as a book.

Does a PDF get published? No. Does it take up 100's of pieces of expensive paper? No. Does it need to be shipped? No. Does it take up shelf space? No.

So charging anything close to full price is a no win move with me. People can make up excuses all they want, but the bottom line is its over priced. 50% is overpriced, and still likely gives them an even bigger profit margin then they would get on a print book.

The cost/profit margins on PDF versus a print book will never justify greater than a 50% sale price to me. Its pure greed, IMO.

 

[jdrakeh]

Does a PDF get published?

Yes, PDFs are published. They do not, by default, get printed, however. Printing and publication are not the same thing in this digital age, though, and saying otherwise is reminiscient of the old "PDFs aren't real products!" trolling that went on when RPGNow first launched

Does it need to be shipped?

Nope. You can get it instantly! For some people this is a huge advantage (and, thus, value) over printed products. This is particularly true for those folks who live overseas or in places that mail might not arrive on time or intact (such as active warzones).

Does it take up shelf space?

Also, no, as you mention -- but, again, for many people that's a huge advantage over printed products. Why break your back carrying around twenty books in a knapsack, when you can carry hundreds of products in the palm of your hand?

People can make up excuses all they want. . .

I don't think that anybody is making up excuses. For some folks, instant availability, extremely easy portability, and the option to print an entire book whenever they need it (e.g., if a copy gets physically damaged or destroyed) are genuinely valuable options that are worth the asking price.