Cost of Spell DC Increase

[kreynolds]

Okay, that forces me to ask: What are you looking for? Is this for the same NPC your asking about Dragon feats for?

LOL Yes, it's for the Dragon NPC, but it also made me think about spell save DCs for PCs as well. But with Monte's, even though it only works with innate racial abilities, you'll run into the same problem if your PCs are playing monsters, so I'm trying to find some middle ground. I really like Monte's, but I think the price is still too low.

 

[kreynolds]

I think bonus squared times 5000 is about right. High DCs are not that hard to get and one magical item that increases all your spell DCs is huge.

But would that be a fair price if the bonuses didn't stack?

 

[Crothian]

LOL Yes, it's for the Dragon NPC, but it also made me think about spell save DCs for PCs as well. But with Monte's, even though it only works with innate racial abilities, you'll run into the same problem if your PCs are playing monsters, so I'm trying to find some middle ground. I really like Monte's, but I think the price is still too low.

I agree. Imagine an encounter with Beholders or Mindflayers who have some of these. Ouch!!

So, we have an NPC that can change into a Dragon with Armor, that has feats to make his breathe weapon more versatile, and has his DCs of his natural abilities raised. What the heck are you doing?

 

[kreynolds]

I agree. Imagine an encounter with Beholders or Mindflayers who have some of these. Ouch!!

Exactly.

So, we have an NPC that can change into a Dragon with Armor, that has feats to make his breathe weapon more versatile, and has his DCs of his natural abilities raised.

Actually, after more development, it's now a Dragon NPC that can change into a humanoid (like normal).

What the heck are you doing?

Too bad you live in Ohio, otherwise, you'd know.

 

[Crothian]

But would that be a fair price if the bonuses didn't stack?

Which bonuses are we talking about? I think it would have to stack with the spellcasting attribute bonus and with items that increase the spellcasting attribute. It would have to stack with the spell level (and heighten spell, the best way IMO to increase DCs).

So, not have it stack with the Spell Focus feats? Then I could see it be bonus squared times 4000.

 

[Crothian]

Too bad you live in Ohio, otherwise, you'd know.

So, if I lived in Boise I'd know? Your telling everyone but Ohioians? I see how you are.

 

[kreynolds]

Which bonuses are we talking about?

Both.

I think it would have to stack with the spellcasting attribute bonus and with items that increase the spellcasting attribute. It would have to stack with the spell level (and heighten spell, the best way IMO to increase DCs).

So, for bonus squared x 5,000gp, it should stack with everything, right?

So, not have it stack with the Spell Focus feats? Then I could see it be bonus squared times 4000.

What about heighten spell? Or do you mean that it wouldn't stack with anything at all?

 

[Crothian]

The way I see it there are three ways to increase DCs.

A) Attribute bonus (and items that increase attributes)
B) Spell Level (and Heighten Spell)
C) Spell Focus Feats

As I see it the magical item has to stack with A & B. These are part of the orginal DC equation (10+Spell level+ attribute Bonus).

So the only thing it would not stack with are the feats. That I would price at 4k times bonus squared.

Allowing the item to stack with the feats, I think 5000 times bonus squared is good.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Ability scores are 2000 x bonus squared, but give other advantages in addition to the +1 DC. So 4000 x bonus squared would be statistically equal without any other benifits. You could bump it up to 5000 for a balancing effect. Save bonuses are powerful, especially if you cast spells vs. someones weak save.

 

[da chicken]

I think I'd rather you start out with a metamagic rod of heightening. Of course, you'd need to create a whole array of different rods, but you can construct that from the description in T&B:

Heightening +1: Lesser (5,400 gp), Normal (21,000 gp), Greater (48,600 gp)
Heightening +2: Lesser (16,200 gp), Normal (64,800 gp), Greater (145,800 gp)
Heightening +3: Lesser (27,200 gp), Normal (108,000 gp), Greater (243,000 gp)
Heightening +4: Lesser (37,800 gp), Normal (151,200 gp), Greater (340,200 gp)

It's kind of a wonky formula, but near I can tell it is:
x= level +
Lesser: (2x-1)*5400
Normal: (2x-1)*5400*4
Greater: (2x-1)*5400*9

I'm sure it breaks down further than that, but I don't see how.

That makes Heightening +5:
Lesser (48,600 gp), Normal (194,400 gp), Greater (437,400 gp)