D&D General Could Improv (and maybe Theatre) save your Roleplaying???

[Umbran]

This is from observation of what people say they want out of this exercise.

That's not how good intellectual inquiry works. If one wants to know how a thing works, or what it does, one ought to ask questions. The discussion was not aimed at these particular concerns, so we should not expect it to cover them. There will be gaps. In order to come to a conclusion, one would have to fill in those gaps with assumptions.

Making assumptions is not a great way to get to an accurate assessment of what's going on.

If you actually want to learn, then ask questions.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Who has said that improv replaces any rules?

The role of improv is to make the game more enjoyable by fleshing out interactions. It's like using art to help players visualise the scene. Having a painting or model scenery doesn't have any effect on the rules, it just makes the game more enjoyable.

Well... Directly from the OP.

Want a focus on the fiction and interaction instead of mechanics and button pressing?

Combine that with all the talk of 'the answer is no on your character sheet' in the parent thread and mechanics are certainly part of the conversation.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's not how good intellectual inquiry works. If one wants to know how a thing works, or what it does, one ought to ask questions. The discussion was not aimed at these particular concerns, so we should not expect it to cover them. There will be gaps. In order to come to a conclusion, one would have to fill in those gaps with assumptions.

Making assumptions is not a great way to get to an accurate assessment of what's going on.

If you actually want to learn, then ask questions.

I'm not sure you're talking about what @Vaalingrade is talking about, because this seems to not address what I take as what he's saying.

And that take is that he's saying that a lot of people pushing for "improv" are doing so by suggesting that the rules of the game be dispensed with in favor of more free play constrained by GM Says.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Combine that with all the talk of 'the answer is no on your character sheet' in the parent thread and mechanics are certainly part of the conversation.

If you spend more time improv you are spending less time with the rules. The improv isn't replacing the rules, you are just spending a greater proportion of time on the out of combat portion of the game.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Not all rules are combat rules.

 

[Helldritch]

I'm wondering why D&D is being presented as a good outlet for practicing improv or learning improv. The system doesn't support improv, and it very much supports GM prep and management of pace and story. You don't have to, but you're kinda on your own. There are other systems that work waaaay better with improv approaches because the mechanics are aimed at resolving the kinds of conflicts improv generates. Heck, if you want improv, play Fiasco! (Campaign play not recommended or supported.)

I beg to differ. Some of my best games were totally and completely improvised. D&D can support it. The more the DM knows his books be it MM, PHB and DMG the more he can improvise without going overboard. The trick is to find a real balance between the randomness of improvisation and the mitigation of weird results you might get from the tables.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not all rules are combat rules.

Any rules. You might roll a DC 15 Persuasion check to get a shopkeeper to lower their prices. Or you might spend 20 minutes in conversation with the shopkeeper, then make a DC 15 Persuasion check to get them to lower their prices. Mechanically, the outcome is exactly the same, but you have spent a significantly smaller proportion of your time rolling the dice.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I am not, actually. I specifically pointed out improv as having a structure and building off itself so as to surprise the participants. I separated that from play acting to specifically move it away from performance!

D&D is not all RPGs. I made that clear as well -- that there are RPGs that support improv better than D&D, which is, at best, ambivalent towards it (I think it cuts against it, frankly, with the almost required need for either GM prep or massive GM system mastery or just ignoring the rules to make improv work). I'm not selling RPGs short. I'm not even selling D&D short -- it was never meant to do improv, it does something else rather intentionally! I'm rather happy with than intentionality.

If D&D actually made a move to support play that is more improvisational, it would be fairly controversial, given how many of the products for D&D could not be created (adventure books, setting book would look different, etc.). The last time D&D did this, it was rather a stink -- you may recall 4e? 4e was trivially drifted into a story now approach to play, which is much more improvisational that trad D&D play. I expect a fair amount of argument about that.

Well, it seems like we are talking past each other at this point, so rather than try and explain it again, I'll just let it go.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Any rules. You might roll a DC 15 Persuasion check to get a shopkeeper to lower their prices. Or you might spend 20 minutes in conversation with the shopkeeper, then make a DC 15 Persuasion check to get them to lower their prices. Mechanically, the outcome is exactly the same, but you have spent a significantly smaller proportion of your time rolling the dice.

But that's exactly what I'm talking about!

It's fine for someone like me to spend a twenty minute conversation with the shopkeeper (assuming the rest of the party is okay with me monopolizing those 20 minutes) but not everyone is equipped for that and they shouldn't be penalized or looked down on for that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But that's exactly what I'm talking about!

It's fine for someone like me to spend a twenty minute conversation with the shopkeeper (assuming the rest of the party is okay with me monopolizing those 20 minutes) but not everyone is equipped for that and they shouldn't be penalized or looked down on for that.

Obviously, the "is everyone having fun" rule comes first. This may come as a shock, but some people are bored by dice-rolling too.