D&D 5E Could SCAG be power creep?

[FormerlyHemlock]

It is definitely power creep, but necessary power creep IMO to fix a glaring issue with the PHB: the PHB has no good reason for characters to ever want to be in melee. The SCAG cantrips are the most notoriously-overused parts of SCAG, because they are twice as strong as any other cantrip, but they come with a cost: you have to get up and in the enemy's face before you can use them. Finally the Eldritch Knight has a reason to care about his War Magic feature! Finally he has a plausible reason to be something other than a Sharpshooter/Crossbow Expert! SCAG cantrips are not better than well-built ranged attacks, but they are different, and rewarding in their own way.

There are other aspects of SCAG which are nice and competitive with PHB archetypes (e.g. Monk of Long Death, Bladesinger, Paladin/Crown Oath), but I don't think those are power creep because they still fall within PHB precedent. It's really only the cantrips that are power creep; but good power creep, the kind that just needs to be a one-time thing and now you're done, because the issue is now fixed.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Flying tieflings are a corner case. Just use common sense when approving flying PC's (or acknowledge that if you are gonna let them in, ensure that you design your encounters appropriately - i.e. ranged weapons and flying monsters appear with a bit more frequency).

There's really no functional difference between a flying Tiefling and a Mobile variant human in most scenarios. Avoiding melee is trivial in 5E.

 

[Sunseeker]

But they say the PC's are balanced so there should be no "high end of the PHB class", correct me if I'm wrong

Balanced in 5E is not 1-1. It's more like 18-22. Some classes are clearly superior at certain tasks than others. Some classes are just underpowered (ranger). I would also argue that classes are balanced as members of a party. So when looking at PC parity, it should be looked at in more of a 3v3 arena style than 1v1.

Now that you mention it, I think that is an option. However, the price for those wings are way to high to be worth it.

I don't know, you give up some innate spellcasting, which if you're a Wizard, Warlock or Sorcerer you don't really need anyway. Or if you're a person who just doesn't like spells, it's a great exchange. Flight always creates some trouble for DMs, but a good DM usually hits you with some anti-flying monsters and it all evens out.

@OP honestly from a power-perspective I think that SCAG is 20% creep, 30% fluff and 40% junk.

 

[Flamestrike]

There's really no functional difference between a flying Tiefling and a Mobile variant human in most scenarios. Avoiding melee is trivial in 5E.

You dont even need mobile mate. Just walk away.

Ive seen players go to extreme lengths to avoid AoO's. Critters get 1. Take it and walk off.

An intresting build I saw in 3.5 was a githzeri monk/ psion/ fist of zuoken, who through intertial armor, a stonking wisdom score, mobility and force screen had an AC of 35 v AoO's at like 5th level. One of his big party tricks was to race around the battlefield drawing AoOs and enabling allies to wander around at will. Particularly useful against bigger targets that everyone was too scared to charge in case they got creamed moving through the critters threatened area.

Had other tricks too, but that was an intresting one.

Guess I just see 'cant move im threatened' said a little too much. Im like 'Dude - it needs a 15 to hit you and deals 2d6 damage - you have 50 hit points, take the risk'.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

• Ghostwise Halflings: Certainly cool, but from a raw combat viewpoint, probably the weakest of the options. Potentially being able to talk to nearly anything, and to do so silently, is huge. But in most games it isn't going to be a big deal.

Telepathy and +1 Wisdom, plus regular halfling Lucky and +2 Dex, makes Ghostwise halflings pretty much ideal Moon Druids. Lucky is almost like +1 to all of your attacks and saving throws, and telepathy mitigates a major pain point for druids that like to stay in wildshape.

[*]Arcana Domain: Spell Breaker is very nice indeed. And starting at 8th level, eldritch blast gets to be huge. But the domain spells are mostly weak (magic missile is nice, but that's about it). A nice addition, but not, IMO, a clearly better option than all the rest.

Arcana clerics don't get Eldritch Blast, and even if they steal it via Spell Sniper they don't get any bonuses with it.

[*]Purple Dragon Knight. This sub-class is way underpowered, at least until 10th level when it move up to "eh". I'd say it's by far the weakest fighter subclass. Cool, but the others (including Champion which I'm not a big fan of) are stronger.

As a bit of theorycraft: at 7th level, Purple Dragon Knights get to double their proficiency bonus on Persuasion. Swashbucklers at 9th level get to use their Persuasion in combat, and they also get Expertise, and Reliable Talent at 11. So a Purple Dragon Knight 8/Swashbuckler 12 could never roll less than a 34 on his Persuasion checks, which basically means that Panache always works even if his Charisma is only 10. Not only can he charm anyone (who speaks his language) outside of combat, but he can enrage and infuriate anyone in combat. Interesting way of doing single-target crowd control, huh?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You dont even need mobile mate. Just walk away.

Ive seen players go to extreme lengths to avoid AoO's. Critters get 1. Take it and walk off.

An intresting build I saw in 3.5 was a githzeri monk/ psion/ fist of zuoken, who through intertial armor, a stonking wisdom score, mobility and force screen had an AC of 35 v AoO's at like 5th level. One of his big party tricks was to race around the battlefield drawing AoOs and enabling allies to wander around at will. Particularly useful against bigger targets that everyone was too scared to charge in case they got creamed moving through the critters threatened area.

Had other tricks too, but that was an intresting one.

Guess I just see 'cant move im threatened' said a little too much. Im like 'Dude - it needs a 15 to hit you and deals 2d6 damage - you have 50 hit points, take the risk'.

Oh, sure. One of the classic uses for Shield Master involves eating an AoO on purpose. (Bash them prone, attack them at advantage, retreat a few steps taking an AoO at disadvantage, and now on their next turn they cannot attack you.)

The tactician in me still prefers it though if it is impossible for the enemy to retaliate effectively as opposed to merely unlikely. It simplifies contingency planning.

 

[Mirtek]

. Finally the Eldritch Knight has a reason to care about his War Magic feature!

Only as long as he doesn't have his third attack.

 

[PnPgamer]

@OP honestly from a power-perspective I think that SCAG is 20% creep, 30% fluff and 40% junk.

what about the remaining 10%?

 

[PnPgamer]

Only as long as he doesn't have his third attack.

makes a great choice when regarding multiclassing.

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

No significant power creep IMO.

Only melee classes get further screwed when the wizard / bladesinger even gets good at melee.