Could this be the future format of 4th Edition D&D?

[Ranes]

with the notable exception of "blimey" since i'm not british and really have NO IDEA what that means these were my thoughts exactly.

The word 'blimey' is a derivation of the exclamation, "God blind me!" It was quite harsh language back in the days when 'naughty' would be the kind of adjective that might describe a murderer.

Back on topic: I salute the creativity of the idea but I don't want to see D&D turning into it. I can't see how there wouldn't be a lot of repetition in these sets. They also suggest the range of critters would be substantially less than a Monster Manual provides. I'd rather carry 1-3 books with me to a game than one or more boxes that lack the durability of a hardback. I agree with those who have argued that breaking up the D&D name would be damaging to the brand (DDM doesn't do that) and, to top it off, I believe that the complexity of the game is one of its defining characteristics; it is what attracts myself and many others.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Okay, I'm back - and its time to start cracking a few heads.

Howdy Numion!

Nah, dont like it.

Thats your prerogative.

If the competition requires D&D to become something its not, the game is already over. D&D's strength is that it's a game of imagination, not that it has shiny accessories like minis and cards.

So to you, all those people who already use miniatures and battlemats in their game are not playing 'true' D&D?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Flexor mate!

I've made my views in the other thread Krusty. Ultimatley I think you are under the assumption you can make D&D all things to all people and have it be the biggest game in the world. I don't think it would work.

My plan is that we bring D&D to the masses, yes. Its still not going to be for everyone, but if you can make an attractive mass market product which appeals to as many people as possible, then I don't see why you think it won't work? As far as I can see it would be a great success.

I vote no desire to have this become D&D. I wouldn't mind a board game D&D ala Talisman but I like my RPG's to be freed from boards.

So don't use the board then. You can still use all the other elements. It still functions without the board. It still functions without the minis.

It seems to me what you are actually saying is that you would probably buy this game and use it as a boardgame, but not as your 'rpg game'. Which to me just sounds like semantics.

 

[Aaron L]

Simplified rules and gameboards with minis = I wouldn't touch it with a 10 meter cattle prod.

 

[DragonLancer]

So to you, all those people who already use miniatures and battlemats in their game are not playing 'true' D&D?

I think the point is (IMO) that at present the use of mini's and battlemaps/maps, is optional. The boardgame style suggestion makes it a requirement as its built into the system. 3.5 suggests the use of mini's through the combat chapter but you can choose to ignore that. A boardgame style game doesn't allow for that option.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Zendragon!

Is my calendar wrong, is this April 1st? You can't be serious with post.

I'm deadly serious.

If you want to play D&D the board game and just expand the rules, go right ahead.

If you want to play D&D 3.5 and just expand the rules, go ahead...does that mean Wizards no longer need to bring out anymore 3.5 products because you (or anyone) can just expand the rules by themselves?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

I do think the core rules should be a lot simpler. I've been driven away from GMing 3e to C&C and old B/X D&D by the rules load.

Its a rules overload.

Something like the old Moldvay Basic, maybe for levels 1-10 as the basic game, then add-ons to taste, would be best I think.

I was thinking Levels 1-12 with add-ons ('sequels') for 13-24 and 25-36.

Dungeons & Vampires: Castle Ravenloft
Dungeons & Vampires 2: Tomb of Horror
Dungeons & Vampires 3: Throne of Orcus

But also starting PCs would be tougher than 3rd Edition PCs. More akin to West End Games Star Wars d6. So 'levelling' (powering up) would be more frequent, but less of a leap.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Psion!

If I want to play Heroscape, I'll pull it down off my shelf and play it.

Looks a lot of fun.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/136986

...but thats not exactly what I am proposing.

Heroscape looks like a strategic board game. What I am suggesting is an RPG with a board/minis/cards as visual props.

For my fantasy roleplaying needs, I'll take D&D in it's current form, or close derivatives. I could see a few things that could be tidied up, but I wouldn't want to see any major shifts.

So then basically what you are saying is that there is no need for a 4th Edition and Wizards of the Coast should either shut up shop or just keep making Monster Manual VI, VII, VIII, Complete Mystic Theurge and the Tarrasqonomicon.

All the major 3.5 releases (bar one*) have been released. Therefore all they are doing at this point is repeating themselves.

*

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Dykstrav!

Seems like a step backwards to me. Didn't modern roleplaying games evolve out of wargames, which are essentially abstracted board games?

I don't seehow simplifying something to erase the minutiae of book-keeping and help in the creative aspects, while simultaneously providing a more visceral and attractive product which could sell to the mass market is a step backward.

The fact of the matter is roleplaying games aren't everyone's cup of tea.

A lot of people will never be given the chance to find out because D&D is not readily sold to the mass market.

I don't thing RPGs will ever be as mainstream as movies or video games, no matter how much you simplify them or tone down the options (which is exactly what you do when you simplify the game).

But why should RPGs be unnecsssarily complicated. 3rd Edition has so many 'moving parts' that could either be streamlined or sidelined (to an advanced rulebook) altogether.

I'm not trying to be elitist, but RPGs definitely cater to the 'smarter than the average bear' market. People who prefer an RPG over a board game or video game desire the freedom and control that they get, which is precisely what you'd lose by stripping the game down into a board game format.

Again don't think of it like that.

What I am proposing would still have Classes, Multiclasses, Races, Prestige Classes, Feats, Spells, Magic Items, Wealth, Hit Points, Armor Class and (limited) Skills etc.

So tell me exactly what are we stripping down?

Seems to me that this format would try to make RPGs sell better by making them into a variant style of board game instead of a RPG, while trying to keep the old players on board through the strength of the brand. I wouldn't be interested in buying a 4E marketed this way, and I suspect there are alot of people out there who wouldn't either. Then you'd get a White Wolf situation like they have with the new World of Darkness...

Its still an RPG - we are just including board tiles/miniattures/cards as standard!

Now on the other hand, I'd be interested in buying a boxed set that was sold essentially as a "dungeon kit" that contained an adventure, including the battle maps/dungeon tiles and the miniatures that go with it. I could see the Sunless Citadel of the Forge of Fury selling well this way. Maybe even an Undermountain series with expansions released twice a year or so.

You see this to me is hypocrisy.

You'd buy an RPG with a "dungeon kit" and minis.

But you wouldn't support my idea - which is an RPG with a dungeon kit and minis.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Razz!

I don't want a 4E at all. That's where I'll quit the game and keep going with 3.5E, probably converting 4E material to 3E material. Of course, I won't be purchasing 4E material, I have my ways.

Exactly. There is no need for another solely pen & paper version of D&D. Thats why I am proposing we step away from being tied down to that format and try a new direction.