D&D 5E Countering Rest Spells (Tiny Hut, Rope Trick, et al)

[Asisreo]

They can pre buff, but u less the buffs last 8 hours the ones in the hut can wait till they run out. To raise fortifications you need tools and materials which most of the time are not at hand and to even begin to think about sealing the PCs in they have to first get past the PCs to get the word out, if the PCs left anyone alive.

Catching the BBEG this way is hard, but not impossible. One is usually not interrupted every minute and with a silence or subtle spell its quite possible to cast the 1, mabe even the 10 minute version without noticing.
And even if you make a commotion you can still get the 1 minute version of the hut to complete as the ones i side are at first suprised and usually don't instantly rush out and then you need to hold the door shut for a few rounds. It possible but not guranteed.

Casted as a readied action so the archer still has his movement to walk right back into the hut.

If it's hard but not impossible and it costed a 3-rd level spellslot, it's not broken.

 

[Derren]

We have periscope hand crossbows now? That's new. Even if you could have just the "top" of the crossbow sticking out, I have no idea how you would aim.

D&D doesn't really map getting your hand cut off, so I would rule that the enemies are allowed to attack which could include a grapple followed by pulling the owner of the hand out of the hut. Many attacks/spells would work just fine even if only the hand is exposed.

I'd probably just rule that it doesn't work because of the simplified nature of the rules don't cover it.

Only the front of the crossbow needs to stick out of the hut and depending on the type of crossbow used your hands are behind the arrow.

 

[Oofta]

Only the front of the crossbow needs to stick out of the hut and depending on the type of crossbow used your hands are behind the arrow.

I stick by my original statement. It's a curved some, I don't see how that would work.

Feel free to rule differently. If the intent of the spell is that you can't attack someone outside from within (something I wish they would clarify) then you can't.

 

[LordEntrails]

Now this discussion is back to being useful. Thanks to all for that.

A couple of thoughts, having counters to counters to actions is good. It allows creativity and variety. Is tiny hut too powerful? Sure, it might be more powerful thatn most spells of it's level, but it is very situational and can be countered without expanding resources (though it can also be countered by using resources). So no, I'm still fine with it.

And if you are using a crossbow its hard to explain why you would need to expose your hands at all.

Only the front of the crossbow needs to stick out of the hut and depending on the type of crossbow used your hands are behind the arrow.

Well, you stick with this (apparently) because of the way you envision being able to shoot out, or that if the front of the bolt/arrow sticks out you are fine. But, it would be just as easy to say the entire bolt/arrow has to be outside the dome in order for it to be fired accurately. That's all fine to rule it either way. It really doesn't make it that much more deadly imo. It can still be countered with the simple expediency of leaving, or covering it, or anything else mentioned.

Now, to get out of the white room fallacies, have my players ever used it as a fortification? Nope. And I will be fine the first time they do. But then the creatures will start to counter it. And they will have to think of something new. Versatility is fine. Isn't that what makes the game fun?

So what if the castle defenders use a hut to reinforce the gate? Do the attackers have no options? Come on, imo it seems everyone that thinks its too powerful feel that things always work out the same way, and if it's not as the DM intended it is somehow wrong. I love it when my players "go off the rails". Of course, I don't think of it that way because I don't run adventures with a pre-determined story or outcome.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

They can pre buff, but u less the buffs last 8 hours the ones in the hut can wait till they run out. To raise fortifications you need tools and materials which most of the time are not at hand and to even begin to think about sealing the PCs in they have to first get past the PCs to get the word out, if the PCs left anyone alive.

Catching the BBEG this way is hard, but not impossible. One is usually not interrupted every minute and with a silence or subtle spell its quite possible to cast the 1, mabe even the 10 minute version without noticing.
And even if you make a commotion you can still get the 1 minute version of the hut to complete as the ones i side are at first suprised and usually don't instantly rush out and then you need to hold the door shut for a few rounds. It possible but not guranteed.

Casted as a readied action so the archer still has his movement to walk right back into the hut.

Lol no. That’s all white room nonsense. In a real game, any DM not being pushed around by their players won’t have any issues with any of it.

And why would tools not be available? The players certainly don’t have any say in that.

You can craft scenarios all day, but it doesn’t actually strengthen your position, because they’re all very clearly theoretical scenarios with little if any relation to a real game.

If the players are regularly meeting enemies where they can take 1-10 minutes to cast a spell before fighting them in a now sealed room with no way out or to raise an alarm (the Hut does nothing to sounds outside of it), then the DM isn’t doing their job. This stuff is trivial.

 

[Derren]

Lol no. That’s all white room nonsense. In a real game, any DM not being pushed around by their players won’t have any issues with any of it.

And why would tools not be available? The players certainly don’t have any say in that.

You can craft scenarios all day, but it doesn’t actually strengthen your position, because they’re all very clearly theoretical scenarios with little if any relation to a real game.

If the players are regularly meeting enemies where they can take 1-10 minutes to cast a spell before fighting them in a now sealed room with no way out or to raise an alarm (the Hut does nothing to sounds outside of it), then the DM isn’t doing their job. This stuff is trivial.

Lol, so all your BBEGs have large quantities of wooden boards, hammers nails and other things you need to craft a fortification lieing around everywhere (as the way to the storage room is blocked by the PCs)?

You are quite clearly creating nonsense scenarios to counter a single 3rd level ritual which alone is evidence for it being OP.

Hope that you never have any players who are creative and don't follow railroads about how they are supposed to play.

 

[LordEntrails]

Lets get back to being friendly...

This stuff is trivial.

Only if you DM and see the game the way we do. If you see it stagnantly then no its not trivial.

You are quite clearly creating nonsense scenarios to counter a single 3rd level ritual which alone is evidence for it being OP.

Its just one scenario. And do not bad guys have beds? Would you be wiling to tear up your bed if it meant staying alive?

Counters to counters are good. Sure, maybe the defenders have no planks, but do they have blankets? Can they take over? Hide? use magic? Flaming oil?

Lets not get caught up in implying any counter is a fallacy because it doesn't always apply or can be countered. Everything can be countered, it just matters how creative and what resources each side has to draw upon.

AND, the game IS NOT ABOUT WINNING A FIGHT. Remember that. If my players put up a hut and I countered it and they countered that I WOULD BE HAPPY. We are all having fun creating interesting stories with undetermined outcomes until they are resolved. Sound like how I want my RPGs to go.

 

[Oofta]

I think someone else posted this a while back, I don't remember it ever being answered.

If an enemy NPC pulled this on the party, what would they do? Assume for a moment the party has been tasked with defending a castle. Hostile NPC gets in before the PCs confront them. How would your PCs handle it?

 

[Derren]

Lets get back to being friendly...


Only if you DM and see the game the way we do. If you see it stagnantly then no its not trivial.

Its just one scenario. And do not bad guys have beds? Would you be wiling to tear up your bed if it meant staying alive?

Counters to counters are good. Sure, maybe the defenders have to planks, but do they have blankets? Can they take over? Hide? use magic? Flaming oil?

Lets not get caught up in implying any counter is a fallacy because it doesn't always apply or can be countered. Everything can be countered, it just matters how creative and what resources each side has to draw upon.

AND, the game IS NOT ABOUT WINNING A FIGHT. Remember that. If my players put up a hut and I countered it and they countered that I WOULD BE HAPPY. We are all having fun creating interesting stories with undetermined outcomes until they are resolved. Sound like how I want my RPGs to go.

It might just be a misunderstanding, but for me a turned over bed is not a fortification. At best its a simple barricade.

Counters are hard besides dispel magic although it gets a bit easier if you rule that people are glued to the grid and can't fire out without exposing themselves fully. And even then it depends on you having more ranged firepower than them.

Everything you throw on the dome can easily be removed from the inside and is useless unless you can dispell it. As the temperature inside the dome is always comfortable cooking them also doesn't work. Smoking them out might work but is not always an option. In the end the best bet would be to always have an escape route and just retreat than to spend significant ressources in trying to breach the hut and then set up your own.

A more long term counter would be to construct your floor not directly on the ground but on 1-2 ft high platforms which you can remove or set on fire unless you follow the advice that the dome has a floor.

 

[tetrasodium]

Lol, so all your BBEGs have large quantities of wooden boards, hammers nails and other things you need to craft a fortification lieing around everywhere (as the way to the storage room is blocked by the PCs)?

You are quite clearly creating nonsense scenarios to counter a single 3rd level ritual which alone is evidence for it being OP.

Hope that you never have any players who are creative and don't follow railroads about how they are supposed to play.

Presumably It's in the credibility straining cupboard beside the extradimensional closet where they store 500gallons of paint vials of permanent vx gas. A number of people are stuck unable to imagine a game that doesn't boil down to tuckers kobolds & constant doom clocks so keep saying that the spell is fine because your a bad gm if you don't contort your game into tuckers kobolds with constant doom clocks. Unfortunately there seems to be extreme unwillingness to accept that the problem is less figuring out ways to counter the spell's abuse than it is how blatantly obvious the adversarial countering becomes & how that animosity harms the game

I think someone else posted this a while back, I don't remember it ever being answered.

If an enemy NPC pulled this on the party, what would they do? Assume for a moment the party has been tasked with defending a castle. Hostile NPC gets in before the PCs confront them. How would your PCs handle it?

A hostile NPC doesn't need to because they tend to have home team advantage & can make use of a locked & barricaded doors/secret door/relocation trinket/trap/etc & the result is more interesting than "they cast tiny hut, it's opaque & you don't know what's going on.... nobody has dispel magic handy?... awww...."