D&D 5E Counterspell - Do I know my foes' spell before I counter?

[Satyrn]

I like that ruling. Only question to discuss seems the difficulty of the DC. 15 + spell level seems a bit high, doesn't it?

It would be too high for me. I'd go with 10+level.


But it totally depends on if it works often enough for your table's preference. So I recommended starting out with whatever number you'd guess works for you, then introduce it to your players with the disclaimer that "this DC might be adjusted once or twice in the future as we figure out the sweet spot." And try to give them just as much power in settling on the DC - make it a group decision or at least be guided by their feedback.


As for this:

On the other hand, if I start to allow that, I am sure my Players will ask for that check for ANY spell.

You can perhaps limiting this by making it use a reaction - though a reaction that would also allow the counterspell to stillbe cast.

 

[Waterbizkit]

Yes. Always. Unless the enemy caster is a sorcerer using subtle spell. I don't need my players pissing away their resources while I try to play "gotcha".

Well, that's how I run it.

 

[bbrown12]

Guess I'm an outlier here. I allow counter spell after I or the player announces what the spell is. The only time a check comes into play is if the spell being countered is a higher level than the slot used to counter.

Don't let them roll free Arcana checks in the middle of an opponent's turn. It'll slow the game down and it isn't compelling gameplay. Either tell them or don't tell them, whatever suits your style and your table, but don't make them roll for it. That's my recommendation.

That's what I am also afraid of. If I allow checks, I am quite sure my players want to identify ANY spell, so we will likely come to the situation that they will ask for a check, WHENEVER a spell is being cast by a foe.

So, there are the following possibilities:

1. Ask for a check to identify a spell. (slows the game)
2. Let the DM describe the casting of spells very precisely, so the players have a chance to guess it. (very laborious for the DM)
3. Just tell the players what spell is being cast and always give them the possibility to counter it, if they want to.
4. Maybe in addition to point 3: Restrict players to not look up spells they want to counter, so they might not know the spell's level. If they want to know, this could be a situation to ask for a check. But regardless of the result, they would be forced to counter the spell then. They only thing they can decide is, if they want to use a 3rd level slot or a higher one.

What do you think?

 

[Satyrn]

That's what I am also afraid of. If I allow checks, I am quite sure my players want to identify ANY spell, so we will likely come to the situation that they will ask for a check, WHENEVER a spell is being cast by a foe.

So, there are the following possibilities:

1. Ask for a check to identify a spell. (slows the game)
2. Let the DM describe the casting of spells very precisely, so the players have a chance to guess it. (very laborious for the DM)
3. Just tell the players what spell is being cast and always give them the possibility to counter it, if they want to.
4. Maybe in addition to point 3: Restrict players to not look up spells they want to counter, so they might not know the spell's level. If they want to know, this could be a situation to ask for a check. But regardless of the result, they would be forced to counter the spell then. They only thing they can decide is, if they want to use a 3rd level slot or a higher one.

What do you think?

Don't do 2. It's not laborious to just the DM. The players would have to suffer through listening to those descriptions

 

[Satyrn]

But anyway, you really might find it best to just tell the players what's being cast. It's simple for you, and the information can be empowering for your players. Not just in the game sense that they can know if it's worth counterspelling and what level of slot to use, and thus rewarding the wizard's player for his effort in learning the game stuff. And rewarding such cou,d encourage the players to learn more about the game, too.

but also in a roleplay sense.

For the players who know what a fireball does, when they hear the DM say "the evil wizard casts fireball at you " they will be able to picture the scene far better than any description you provide. And you can use the time and effort you've saved by not describing the fireball to instead describe the evil wizard's evil cackling as the players get scorched - and his gulp of fear as the flames die away leaving the party rogue unscathed.

 

[jgsugden]

You're telling a heroic tale. Where the rules are ambiguous or lacking, figure out which rules give the best chance for the PCs to have the best story. I am not hesitant to be inconsistent in how I handle these types of rule situations if it serves the story well.

It is a role playing game in which we play roles in a story. The role playing comes before the game.

 

[Bishop_]

I think telling your players which spell is being cast is the way to go. If you feel that too much soft, you can limit this "knowledge" to spells known/prepared/wrote in their spellbooks.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Hi,

let's say, I don't want to waste my Counterspell to interrupt an enemy casting a Cantrip, but I do want to prevent him from casting e.g. a Fireball. Is it possible to find out what spell is being cast by my foe, so I can decide whether or not I cast Counterspell?

For example, I am having in mind to use the Arcana ability check for that. On the other hand, if I start to allow that, I am sure my Players will ask for that check for ANY spell. Therefore, to speed up the game, I would also be an option to automatically tell them and give them the opportunity to counter or not.

How would you rule that?

Thanks in advance!

RAW, no.

I had considered some abilities to use Arcana as a reaction to identify the spell, but then you wouldn't have a reaction left to cast counterspell.

I've come to the conclusion that the intent/thought is that casting a spell is very fast, and you are reacting nearly instantaneously to counter it. No time to figure out what it is.

Having said that, I think I found a happy medium. If you are considering casting counterspell, compare your passive Arcana to they spell save DC. If it's higher, then you can hold the counterspell. I'd probably burn the reaction regardless, though.

 

[Li Shenron]

What really happens in practice is that, if the DM has already said something like "the enemy Wizard casts Fireball" before resolving the effects, then you know the spell being cast, while if the DM plays it mysterious and doesn't say it, then you don't know. I wouldn't want to add another dice roll to figure it out.

 

[clearstream]

What really happens in practice is that, if the DM has already said something like "the enemy Wizard casts Fireball" before resolving the effects, then you know the spell being cast, while if the DM plays it mysterious and doesn't say it, then you don't know. I wouldn't want to add another dice roll to figure it out.

I prefer to give players who chose to take proficiency in Arcana and Religion a benefit for their choices. Hence for me it is a roll DC 12+spell level (odds on to identify spells that are at a level you can cast).

Given how ubiquitous arcane and divine foci must be, I would tell a player the spell components in terms of being V, S or M, but only rarely would the spell-specific components be identifiable unless they were too valuable to be obviated by a focus.