D&D 5E Counterspell Variant: More Specific, Lower Level

[NotAYakk]

Variants that target certain types of spells.

In a game, things whose utility varies with the kinds of opponents you face have serious issues.

Players rarely have control over it. So you either need to be able to scout & prepare, or just get lucky.

So this kind of spell ends up taking a slot for a non-prepared caster that can only be changed like once per level. For a prepared caster it is slightly more plausible, but still needs a bit of "scry to win".

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Ideas:

Mage Duel

• Starts a "duel" between you and the target; no save.
• Requires concentration.
• If you have concentration, you have to roll at the start of your turn to keep it.
• You can both burn spell slots to disrupt enemy spells. If you have a spell of the same school you get a bonus; if it also matches the level you get another bonus.
• Instead of yes/no, how about 4 different results:

** Reduce damage/save bonus
** No
** Yes
** Caster takes damage, spell goes off

Spell Decay
* Increases the rate at which time passes before the duration of a spell ends

 

[doctorbadwolf]

My gut says probably 2nd level. It's kind of like a weaker, specialized version of Bestow Curse, if I'm remembering correctly. AFB ATM.

That makes sense!

In a game, things whose utility varies with the kinds of opponents you face have serious issues.

Players rarely have control over it. So you either need to be able to scout & prepare, or just get lucky.

So this kind of spell ends up taking a slot for a non-prepared caster that can only be changed like once per level. For a prepared caster it is slightly more plausible, but still needs a bit of "scry to win".

---

Ideas:

Mage Duel

• Starts a "duel" between you and the target; no save.
• Requires concentration.
• If you have concentration, you have to roll at the start of your turn to keep it.
• You can both burn spell slots to disrupt enemy spells. If you have a spell of the same school you get a bonus; if it also matches the level you get another bonus.
• Instead of yes/no, how about 4 different results:

** Reduce damage/save bonus
** No
** Yes
** Caster takes damage, spell goes off

Spell Decay
* Increases the rate at which time passes before the duration of a spell ends

I like those ideas!

And as for your concerns, that’s one reason why my suggested spell doesn’t actually require a spell to have been cast for the spell to work. My original concept was that it would be a barb in the connection between a conjurerer and what they’d conjured, or a necromancer and it’s thrall, etc. instead, it simply creates a barb where both take damage any time one takes damage.

 

[Bacon Bits]

The only change I've ever considered to counterspell was removing the entirety of the "At higher levels" clause. I don't think I've seen a simpler alteration that had more or less the desired effect, but the one campaign we tried it in, nobody was a Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard. We kind of forgot about it since then.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The only change I've ever considered to counterspell was removing the entirety of the "At higher levels" clause. I don't think I've seen a simpler alteration that had more or less the desired effect, but the one campaign we tried it in, nobody was a Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard. We kind of forgot about it since then.

So, you simply always have to make the check for a spell that is higher than 3rd level? I could live with that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What about a higher level Counterspell that functions like a Smite Spell? Bonus Action, 1 min with concentration, the next time a creature within 30 ft of you casts a spell, you can move up to 10ft and make a weapon attack against it as a Reaction. If you hit, you deal the normal damage as well as 2d10 Force damage, and the target must succeed on a Concentration check against either your Spell Save DC or half the damage dealt, whichever is higher, or it is unable to cast the spell.

obviously clean up for 5e language formatting, get all the right "then the spell ends" clauses, increase damage by spell level, etc.

I'd place it at 4th level? Within eventual reach of half casters.

Could it be 3rd level, right alongside Counterspell, since it requires that you hit and that the target fail it's save in order to stop the spell?

I selfishly want it to be 2nd somehow, because my rogue/wizard mage hunter may never get 3rd level spells, and I want this spell, but I don't like to homebrew with only a single character in mind.

 

[NotAYakk]

At 2nd it should be an action and deal 1d10 extra.

At 3rd it is a bonus action.

At 4+ it gets +1d10 per slot level.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

At 2nd it should be an action and deal 1d10 extra.

At 3rd it is a bonus action.

At 4+ it gets +1d10 per slot level.

I don’t love the idea of changing the action economy at higher levels.

I think it’s balanced with other smites if it deals a single die of damage, and is somewhat more situationally applicable, as a 2nd level spell.

 

[Horwath]

here is some spell vs spellcasters.

Mana burn.
Level 1 evocation
range 60ft, spell attack.
duration 1 min

deal 1d6 damage per level of highest current available spell "slot" target has or per level you cast this spell. Whatever is lower.
Wisdom save for half damage.
for the next minute every time target cast the spell it suffers the same damage. Depending on spell level cast.

 

[NotAYakk]

I don’t love the idea of changing the action economy at higher levels.

I think it’s balanced with other smites if it deals a single die of damage, and is somewhat more situationally applicable, as a 2nd level spell.

No, it gives 1d10 damage and gives you an attack when you wouldn't have one and generates a nice smite effect.

For many builds, a bonus action 2nd level spell that just said "you get to attack" would be worth it. (While many builds get bonus action attacks, they do so with investment either in class features, gear layout, feats, or more than one of the above)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No, it gives 1d10 damage and gives you an attack when you wouldn't have one and generates a nice smite effect.

For many builds, a bonus action 2nd level spell that just said "you get to attack" would be worth it. (While many builds get bonus action attacks, they do so with investment either in class features, gear layout, feats, or more than one of the above)

I don’t think a spell that just gave a situational reaction attack would even be worth a 1st level slot.

But as a 2nd or 3rd level spell that gives a situational reaction attack with a bonus, and a chance at stopping a spell, it’s worthwhile.

4th would require some real damage boosting.